Please stop using ATS-55 steel

A

AG

Banned
Joined
Jan 2, 1999
Messages
185
Hi,

I ask Spyderco to stop using ATS-55 on any of its blades.

We all know the ATS-34 / ATS-55 is not a shining star anymore. We know this steel takes a relatively nice edge but seriously lacks in the department of stain resistance.

I will NEVER carry an ATS-34/55 blade that is not coated. I live in a hot climate with average relative humidity ranging from 60%-85% and I don't want to oil my blade daily in order to protect it from rust.

Marine Tuf-Cloth is not helping either - If you ask me it's a joke. A blade coated with Tuf-Cloth and carried in my pants pocket will start to develop rust spots in a matter of few days.

I urge all of you that agree to talk Spyderco into giving up of this ATS-55 ordeal as there are other options available: VG-10, BG-42, AUS-8A and I even prefer GIN-1 , anything but ATS-34 / 55. The best thing is of course cpm-440v , but I am aware that this steel is most expensive to be used on all models and is NOT used on SEKI-JAPAN made models - just bring back GIN-1 / AUS-8A PLEASE !!!

I am so frustrated with this steel that I simply cannot carry a civilian just because it is has an ATS-55 blade and I can't stand seeing it rust in front of my eyes in a matter of days. Don't wanna mess with daily oiling and FLitz and other ordeals.


If Spyderco took a different approach and like Benchmade offered a Black coated blades then I would have no problem at all. But convert 40% of models to ATS-55 and leave me without a decent stain-resistance steel is not acceptable.
 
AG, I think you might get more flies with honey than vinegar...
I have read that some folks do have a rusting problem with ATS-55, I myself have not. I believe Sal reads many/most or all of the posts here and values our feedback and may even make some decisions with the cumulitive (sp?) feedback expressed on the forums. ATS-55 was probably part of Sypderco's efforts to provide improved steels to the customer. I have no complaints with this steel, but I do really prefer some of the latest offerings. The VG-10 and 440V are both fantastic. I was just out in the garage doing some cutting on heavy rope just to see how some of my favorite knives performed. The VG-10 Calypso Jr. did great, the Starmate with 440V did great and my Carson Model 4 with 420V did great. But as a side note so did my Micarta Calypso Jr. with AUS-8 steel. Spyderco offers most of the "latest" steels first in production knives and sometimes some of these steels may not be optimum for each person or application. If you don't like ATS-55 don't buy it. There are many knives that I have "passed" on for one reason or another. Lately I will not buy any additional liner lock knives. This is my choice right or wrong. It means that I miss out on alot of pretty cool knives offered by both production and custom makers. Oh well. Anyway my actual point was I think you might get a more favorable response if you present your concerns and suggestions in a more positive way.
Also, You could have your civilian blade coated by an aftermarket company. Maybe someone can suggest who could do this for you.
A side note: I have purchased a few knives with BG-42 steel in the last months and am not impressed with it at all. Just goes to show, to each his own...

You may find some help here.... http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=173867
 
I look at it this way: ATS-55 certainly is an improvement over AUS-6. To me, overall a good cutlery steel.

And I have had zero rusting on my ATS Dragonfly, though I do live in the (very) dry So. California climate. Don't know from experience how it behaves in high humidity so that's as far as my comment goes.

Just my experience...
 
I've used my Endura ATS-55 for salt water diving with only very small rust spots days later...this was after letting it sit for days without cleaning. The only thing I do to my knives for corrosion protection is use Rem Oil on them. ATS-55 is not my favorite steel (CMP-440v is) but, it performs well and sharpens easy.
 
If it were me having the rust problem, I would try some Tetra brand gun grease and then wipe off all the excess from the blade or a high quality car wax. But nothing is going to stay on the actual cutting edge after you use it. Just too much abrasion. My suggestions might allow you to carry the civi though.
 
Personally, I see nothing wrong with ATS-55. I have never had any rust problems with my ATS-55 Spydercos, even in humid environments. Some steels are prone to rust faster than others, but keeping the blades cleaned and oiled is the key to maintaining them. I've used Marine Tuf-Cloth on all my user knives, ATS-55, ATS-34, 154CM, AUS-8, AUS-6, 420HC and none have any rust problems.
 
I live in a very hot and humid climate myself and have had zero rust problems with Spyderco's ATS-55 blades (I carry one or two Matriarchs next to my body all day long, every single day; before that, I used to carry an Endura). Don't even have to oil it that frequently. All I do is wipe it daily with a clean, dry rag.

Leo
 
No problems with ATS-55 here. I just keep it dry and oil it once in a while. I carry my Blue Delica alot and cut up apples and such at lunch. A good wipe seems to do the trick.
 
>A blade coated with Tuf-Cloth and carried in my pants pocket will start to develop rust spots in a matter of few days.

=====================

EEK! RUST SPOTS! :rolleyes:

Gimme a break. I wouldn't trade my ATS-55 Endura for anything. And I live in South Florida, near the coast. Serious cutting ability and edge holding are FAR more important to me than a few dots that I can usually scrape off with a thumb nail anyway.
 
I hate to agree...

While the toughness and edge holding of my ATS-55 knives is very good, they rust like nothing else. This is even with Marine Tuf Cloth. As AG said, it literaly rusts in front of your eyes. Now I don't know why some do and some don't have problems, so I think it is a problem in manufacture. It must be, so many have NO problems and quite a few EXPERIENCED users have nothing but problems. It is not a case of salt water fishing=rust! Duh! I am talking about knife sellers and users like me who own a large selection of steels. In my view ATS-55 is similar to D2 for rust resistance. I.E. it does not resist very well at all.

Pity, but with VG-10 on the way...:D
 
Thank god The General agrees with me, I almost thought I was the only one who imagined that ATS-55 rusts so fast.

I must agree with The General as to the fact that there are some examples of blades made of ATS-55 that tend to rust MUCH more easily than others...Both of us don't want to take any more chances with that steel and because the selection is there, we will only look for non-ATS-55 steels for our next knife purchase.
 
I also agree with you - (but I am just a small rank officer...)

I too had rusting problems with the ATS - 55 - but this was during deep water diving...so who knows...

It did rust badly - and in the past I did the same dives with a gin-1 endura - and had no problems (with the same level of care) so I guess there is soemthing in what you say...never thoght I'd say that about you...

So I agree with you - and think there are other better steel options today.
 
Guys, honestly, it might not be the ATS-55, listen close now.

We are all human beings, obviously, that's the starting point.

Sometimes it is not the salt in our perspiration that causes our folders to spot-rust. Sometimes it is the various, highly individual, chemical makeup of our bodies that act in concert with the salt in our perspiration that makes a knife rust.

This is PRECISELY why you can see two people who carry the same knife and live in the same type of environment have drastically different experiences with the same steel and/or knife.

I can tell you with absolute honesty that I can spot rust an uncoated ATS-34 blade in my pocket on a summer day, that's just the way it is! But...here is the strange part, I can carry an Endura next to it or some other knife and NOTHING will appear on the blade. I'm dead serious. This is more than about what we call "sweat." We are all walking chemical labs, we are all different. Bead blasted ATS-34 will spot rust in a couple hours on a summer day if I am exerting myself and sweating. ATS-55 will NOT. If the ATS-34 is satin finished, it depends on how close to a "mirror" satin finish it is, the closer it is to a "mirror" finish, the tighter the grain is and the harder for the elements to enter the steel. That is why bead blast goes to hell in my pocket quickly in the summertime.

I think using Boron Carbide™ would eliminate ALL of these problems, it is apparently the best coating out there and has the greatest resistance to wear as well.

But don't condemn the steels because your [chemical-laden] body is having a chemical reaction to them, it is 100% natural and Sal Glesser cannot realistically be expected to make a run of ATS-55 knives for one group of people and the same knife in a run of VG-10 or any other steel for someone else who has a different body chemistry. Spyderco is a Production Company, not a Custom Maker.

Now, I'm NOT a Chemist and I'm not claiming to be or to have a secret knowledge, but I have experienced this and discussed it with my friends and shared their experiences and sometimes I see that echoed on here. It is the only possible reason that I have been able to come up with so far, why two people can live in the same environment, both start sweating and one blade will rust and another blade with the same steel will not.

If anyone can come up with a better answer, I'm all ears.
 
Mark me down in the "never had a problem with ATS-55" category.

I do, however, have a VG-10 stainless damascus Hattori Santoku kitchen knife that took some serious spot rust when my wife didn't wipe it dry after use. My thoughts are that the circumstances and the specific batch of steel will dictate the reaction to environment.
 
Originally posted by mnblade
Just curious, have you guys ever owned a carbon steel blade?
Click to expand...

Good question. Personally, I don't see resistance to rust as a blade's most important quality. If that was the case, I'd go with 420 series.

Leo
 
Don Rearic wrote:
"Sometimes it is not the salt in our perspiration that causes our folders to spot-rust. Sometimes it is the various, highly individual, chemical makeup of our bodies that act in concert with the salt in our perspiration that makes a knife rust.

This is PRECISELY why you can see two people who carry the same knife and live in the same type of environment have drastically different experiences with the same steel and/or knife. ..."

==============================

Damn interesting post - one that makes a lot of sense in light of the different experiences we're reading about here.

Shortly after getting my ATS-55 Endura, I carried it with me to the beach (the wife's reaction? :rolleyes: ). One of the snacks we brought that day in the cooler was a half pineapple. I used the Spydie to cut up the fruit, quickly sloshed the knife around in the melted ice to "clean" it off, wiped it dry on a sandy towel, and put it back in my day-pack. That afternoon when we got home, I forgot to unpack the knife and give it a proper bath and care. The next day when I finally got around to it, the worst damage was a few light spots that I was able to scrape off with a thumb nail. Otherwise the knife was fine. :p
 
Hmmm, caustic sweat eh? I have thought about this and commented on this in the past. The only blades that have given me problems were very high carbon steels like D2 and very occasionally ATS-34/154CM. Otherwise anything that has a glass beaded finish.

I will keep this short and sweet, I own from memory three knives in ATS-55, the first is my fully serrated Endura and it has given me at most a couple of light rust spots with wear in summer. All in all most acceptable! My Matriarch on the other hand rusts as you look at it. A couple of months ago I showed this knife to a couple of friends, the knife was protected with a thick layer of Marine Tuf Cloth and no one had anything like sweaty hands or anything corrosive on their hands. Well after a couple of openings each, I wiped the knife on my jumper (just in case) and put it in the inside pocket of my coat. It remained dry all evening and as we were indoors and the knife was in the pocket in the dry, no sweat got near it.

Needless to say the very next day this knife was spotted with rust where the knife had been touched! Not good at all. No matter how I clean and protect this knife it just rusts at will. My Blue Delica has not even been carried as I am concerned it will be a rust hound as well. In comparison for the last couple o months I have been carrying my Camillus EDC 154CM everywhere I go, once a week at most a rub with the Tuf Cloth. No rust no problems at all.

In the Summer I carried my LCC D/A clipped to my pocket. I got very hot and sweaty on a regular basis and I only once had to clean a couple of rust spots of the blade!

As to owning and using Carbon steel knives, well I carry and use on a regular basis, 1075, 1095 CPM 10V and Double High Carbon Devin Thomas Damascus. No problems at all!

Question, how come similar conditions and the same treatment = Endura fine and Matriarch not? Same company same steel? Someone commented that Mike Payne gave up on this steel after he found a Spyderco knife in said steel would not stop rusting! Now IIRC he tried everything to sort it out, protection and care etc, no luck. Now if a dealer like Mike cannot sort out a knife like this, it suggests there is something wrong with some of the ATS-55 blades out there. Now I love Spyderco as a company and the products they release, which are normally excellent. However I will buy two of the Endura and Delica’s in VG-10 as I believe it is a far superiour steel, without the same rust problems. I seem to remember Cliff saying perhaps the lack of certain elements in ATS-55 like Moly causes free Chromium to for carbides and thus drasticly reduce resistance to oxidisation? Perhaps this is the cause?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top