Pls help with concealed weapons charge with a bali

D

daleduro

Joined
Jun 6, 2007
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Both my boyfriend and I are knife collectors and bali fans. We love to flip them. Last weekend he was arrested at my house for driving on a suspended license and for an FTA. At the time of his arrest he was also charged with carrying a concealed weapon, because he had his favorite bali in his back pocket.

I later read the arrest report and found a couple of problems. In one place the weapons charge stated “an electric weapon or device”. This is just wrong. In the description of what happened they stated he was carrying a “butterfly switch blade knife”. This is also wrong. It is not a switch blade knife and the arresting officer should have known this.

I would like to see them drop this charge based on the discrepancies. For one thing, nearly everybody carries a knife in their pocket. I know I do. For another, this is not an illegal knife in Florida (the blade is 4 inches long and is not doubled-edged), yet they said that it is illegal. He asked then why can you buy them at any flea market around here. Do you think he has a chance to get this dropped?
 
I too have been charged with "CCDW" when several police swarmed and pulled me over because my car resembled the vehicle of a wanted suspect. They asked if I had a weapon, so I handed over my CRKT My Tighe (Assisted Open / 3.5 blade), which was VISIBLY clipped to my front right pocket. I went to jail for CCDW, but the charges were dismissed because the knife wasn't concealed, nor was it ruled a "deadly weapon".

---This clearly shows why the charge of "CCDW" is so controversial because we (the innocent knife enthusiasts) are suddenly threatened with felony charges that could RUIN our lives if not defended properly.

---The written law differs in each state and is often mis-interpreted by "THOSE" officers who abuse their power in order to compensate for their own insecurity and "personal weakness" elsewhere.

IN CONCUSION, your situation could be viewed either way. First, the legal definition of a "switchblade" significantly relates to design and function of a balisong.
- For example... the bali can open with gravitational force, the blade unfolds/folds within the handle, and the bali blade can be released with the flick of a lever. Second, if the judge labels it a "switchblade" and not a "classic pocket knife") the rest of charge finds justification through being a deadly weapon in a pocket, or otherwise concealed (= CCDW).

HOWEVER, the wildly inaccurate police report is notorious for sabotaging a case by calling into question the credibility of the arresting officers.

Good luck though,

Hunter
 
Maybe the Bill Obama passed a few months ago clearly defining a switchblade can give you a little ground to stand on.
 
If you carry a knife in Florida, you should have a CCW permit in order to avoid these kinds of issues. If you don't have a permit, you are risking this kind of hassle. In most states, a balisong is considered a switchblade-type of knife so you really do want a permit.
 
Looks like I should absolutely get a concealed weapons permit because I DO want to continue carrying my Kershaw Scallion without a hassle. I use it for everything from peeling oranges to opening letters. I don’t want to carry it on the outside of my jeans because I don’t want to LOSE it. But back to him.

They came INTO the house and got him – he was not walking in public. They then took him OUTSIDE, frisked him, and found it. They did not have a search warrant, but I guess they can do whatever they want.

Please try not to judge him harshly as he is not a violent person at all. I do think he should 'pay' for the suspended and the FTA, but not the knife. And now especially because they did put down “electric weapon or device” on the report. (So what was it, an electronic device OR a knife, it wasn’t both. I WISH it had been a stun gun because we like to walk the dog. There are loose dogs in the neighborhood and the noise from it scares them away.) I guess I always thought a switchblade denoted a spring type action that deployed the blade. I suppose one could interpret an apple to be an orange if the definition were stretched far enough. I didn’t realize that a gravity type knife could be considered a switchblade. All he does is play with the stupid knife or use it for mundane things like cutting tags off new clothes.

I wasn’t aware of Obama’s bill where he defines a switchblade. Would you by any chance have a link for more information?

If a butterfly knife is illegal then how can the local flea market have knife vendors who very visibly sell them?

Back to me. My house is full of knives, all kinds. Do I need a permit for this collection? I also carry a dagger in the car because hijackings are fairly common around here. I guess I should get rid of that in case I ever get pulled over for some traffic violation, right? Good grief, what a mess. I hope a baliyo isn’t considered a weapon because I have one in my purse, and like to flip it.

Can you think of anything that he could say to get the CCDW dropped? Would pointing out the “electric device” vs a butterfly switch blade knife hold any weight? What would you guys say in court if you were in this unfortunate situation? (Yes, I know, get a CWP, which we both will, but just haven’t done yet. Maybe he should point that out.) I paid $250 to get him bonded out. We can’t afford an attorney. Btw, they kept his bali.
 
Your best bet is to retain proper legal counsel. We here can give you advise, but only a lawyer can provide you with any real legal assistance. Without one, there is good chance that your boyfriend will be convicted.
 
1. Get a lawyer or public defender.

2. If necessary, ask for a jury trial. The gov'mnt will try to discourage you with threats, but it's your right. You wouldn't convict him. I wouldn't convict him. The good folks on a jury probably wouldn't either. (The govn'mt doesn't like jury trials on this piddly stuff because they almost always loose. The jurors identify with the accused.)
 
Yea, I know, get a lawyer. Depending on the cost I’ll check that out. You know I wish they’d go to all this trouble for real criminals instead of an FTA and a guy who loves flipping balis and was carrying one in his pocket in his own house when he was arrested. He wouldn’t hurt a flea. I’d like to be as knowledgeable as possible before it all hits the fan. Could anyone answer the other questions tho? I will google the Obama bill re the definition of ‘switchblade’. Any help would be appreciated, like the bill number.

What about the knives and swords in my house? They are in full view all over the place. Could I be ultimately be nailed for having them here? Suddenly my home seems to not be my castle anymore.

It looks to me like a CWP is primarily for carrying a gun, for which I have no interest. I don’t really care about knowing the statutes re guns, I want to cover myself for a knife, only a knife, and so does he.

How can flea market vendors sell balis if they are allegedly illegal here? Button deployed knives are a dime a dozen here too.

Seeing that the definition of a switchblade could be stretched to apply to a bali, what do you think about the arrest report stating an electric device versus the knife? I don’t like that at all. Knives aren’t electric devices. I understand that doesn’t change the fact that he had a knife in his pocket, but you know, they should get it right. They should also have to be accountable in getting the facts straight.
 
"If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you by the court..."

First let me say I'm sorry to hear about your boyfriend. Unfortunate series of events, for sure! Second, and I'm not totally sure about this, but it's technically not illegal to own a balisong, but it is illegal to carry one. It's the same here in Colorado. We can buy bali's and switchblades at every gun show that comes through town, but you don't want to get caught carrying one.

It's possible -through the help of an attorney- to get a deferred judgement on the CCDW charge, in which your boyfriend will jump through a series of hoops, for a predetermined period of time, in turn for having the charge dismissed later. It's a HUGE pain in the ass, but it's better than having a conviction on his record. Especially if he wants to obtain a CCW later on! I doubt very seriously if the DA will drop the charge completely. They are in the business of winning cases, not dismissing them. I would get a public defender(who works closely with and has built relationships with the DA), and look at the possibility of diversion/deferred judgement.

I only say this because I speak from experience. I caught a Menacing w/ Deadly Weapon(a class 5 felony, btw) charge for using a knife in a "defensive posture" against a man who cleary posed a physical threat to my son and I. Admittedly, it was a stupid move on my part, but I was scared...

...I digress, I was offered ADP(adult diversion program), completed my requirements, and the charge was dismissed, record was sealed, and I learned a valuble lesson!!

best of luck to you and your boyfriend!!
 
give me your email address and I will send you a copy of fl law on switchblades. they are a legal carry with out the cc perment.
 
tom19176 said:
Loook at the Fl law here:

http://knife-expert.com/fl.txt

It seems like there was no violation of the state law. Is there a local law that maybe more restictive?
Click to expand...

Florida is rife with local laws far beyond the state laws. I live in Winter Springs, and checked with the local PD, and here, knives with over a 3" blade are illegal to carry around. As well as switchblades, fixed blades and balisongs.
And Daytona used to be unbelievable strict, I don't know if they are now or not.
As far as a warrant, heck, if they came out to pick him up for FTA it sounds like there was an arrest warrant issued, no?
Did he have a public defender at arraignment? I'd guess that would be a good source of advice on whether a private attorney would need to be engaged or not.
I might be wrong here, but as far as I know a concealed carry permit does not apply to a knife.
 
jerrinfla said:
Florida is rife with local laws far beyond the state laws. I live in Winter Springs, and checked with the local PD, and here, knives with over a 3" blade are illegal to carry around. As well as switchblades, fixed blades and balisongs.
Click to expand...

new_shocked.gif
I didn't know local laws could possibly restrict knife laws, that's new to me and I should check them out from the PD as well...
 
Lets try this again. Did you look at the state law link? If you did look at the arrest paper work and look at the section of the law he was charged with. This will CLEARLY tell you if it is the state law I linked you to. If it has a different law quoted, then google it to see if you can find the law itself. Many states consider possession to be having control over an item. This is never clear to people when it is about a knife or gun they feel they can own, but they clearly understand it when it involves drugs. Unless the law states "on your person, or concealeed" as a restriction to the possession, then it applies to anywhere the knife is including your home. The FL law does NOT seem to include anything but concealled carry. They don't need a warrant if he was seen entering the house and they did not loose sight of him. I am former NYC LEO, but most laws are generally the same. The weapon is an add on charge here but maybe the most serious. Hopefully the DA will DP (decline prosecution) the weapon charge. The law referred to about the Customs ruling will not be helpful, but what will be helpful is the fact that Fl Gov Bush amended the Fl law a few years back to clearly state switchblades and like knives are legal. ( there was a court case on this and the law was changed in favor of knife ownership).

Yes, get a lawyer ( Public defender is fine). Asking for a trial if the charges are affirmed is a good idea, but if it was to actually go to trial, then the punishment will be harsh.....
 
IC… about it not being illegal to sell, but being illegal to carry. So should I get the (gun) weapons permit to carry the knife? If a CWP doesn’t pertain to knives, then what do I need to get to carry a knife? I can’t believe that everyone who carries a knife in their pocket has rushed out to get some kind of permit. I also know that nearly everybody walking around here does carry a knife.

Right. A public defender will be provided for him, but he only gets about 5 minutes (if that) to talk to him on the court date. I’m sure the defender doesn’t care much about the electric v switchblade part.

So one can get a CCDW for carrying the knife inside his own house? I let the officer in, so that was my first mistake.

Thanks MikeyJ, we need it. The DA may be in the business to win cases, but he should also be fair in deciding if a person truly is a meanace. You don’t have the right to defend your son? With a knife, or your hands what difference does it make. You’re supposed to just ask the guy to leave? Now I’m glad I took a krav maga course. I’d hate to hear the definition of a ‘defensive posture’.

Thanks Richard, I read the Fla. statutes.. I don’t like the way the definition of a switch blade can be so loosely applied to a bali. I’m not sure judges know enough about knives to care one way or another. It’s a bad knife so it might as well become a switchblade. I guess the knife I use to carve meat could be considered a tactical weapon under the right circumstances. And a pen could become a weapon. I’m really stressed.

Jerrinfla…. A greater than 3 inch blade is illegal in Winter Springs??? Good googamooga. I live in Longwood so I have no idea what the law is here, probably something just as bad. Is there some place on the net where I can see the knife laws of cities in central Fla.? I’m learning a lot. I had no idea that cities could come up with their own laws. Yea he had a warrant, but was carrying the knife IN the house on my property, not away from it. As for Daytona, I can imagine the law there.. however, there are several knife vendors at the Daytona flea market and you can get just about anything there.
 
I live in winter springs fl and I sell switchblades. I sell them in parking lots most of the time. the cops watch me do it and come over to see what i am selling today. i have never heard of this new law. I am going down there today to ask them.
 
I might be wrong here, but as far as I know a concealed carry permit does not apply to a knife.
Click to expand...

The Florida license is a "concealed weapons permit" (CWP) and covers most commonly carried weapons, including firearms, knives, batons, etc. Having a concealed weapon without a permit is fairly risky, as it leaves a great deal of interpretation open to law enforcement personnel.

What is troubling here in this case is that the person carrying the weapon was indoors on private property and taken outside, where the charge then took effect. Sort of like being inebriated in your home, stepping outside with an officer and then being charged with public intoxication.

The Florida law on knives is here.

From my reading of it, the problem isn't the type of knife (i.e., that it was a balisong), but simply that it was concealed. Any knife not considered "a common pocketknife" can run afoul of this law, specifically:

790.01 Carrying concealed weapons.--

(1) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person who carries a concealed weapon or electric weapon or device on or about his or her person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
Click to expand...
So that's where the "electric weapon" language comes from.
 
I just came from the winter springs police deparment and they said they are following the states law on knifes. there is no law about blade lengh city or state. she does not know what she is talking about because I dont think that the police are going to lie to me.
 
He was charged under 790.01/1 and now I’m clear about the ‘electric’ part. Thanks for helping me there. You know, he had been flipping the knife in the house and just threw it in his pocket afterward. He wasn’t knowingly and purposefully trying to conceal a weapon, good grief. How anal are they going to get.

Exactly, Mandarin, on the analogy of being inebriated in your own home and then being taken outside to be arrested. This is really troubling for me. It’s not like he was abusing a substance that is clearly illegal whether it’s in the house or not. I think he should mention that to the defender.

Richard, you said that the Winter Springs PD follows the state laws on knives - so they don’t really care about the specifics of the knife – just that it wasn’t a common pocket knife. Then it doesn’t matter whether it was a true switchblade or a balisong. I wonder if the Longwood police also follow the state laws on knives, or do they go by the city laws. This seems like a gray area, that it’s a PD’s decision to follow city or state laws? I couldn’t find anything posted about the Longwood laws and I don’t really want to get into a conversation with the PD. No, they won’t lie to you, but maybe one officer’s opinion will differ slightly from another’s on the interpretation of it all.

So I wonder what’s going to happen. He drove on a suspended license and missed his court date. He didn’t rob a bank or hurt anyone. His only recourse is to tell the truth, which he will do. The date is on the 21st. I guess he won’t get his knife back.

As for me, I will apply for a CWP. In light of everything, do you think he will have a problem getting one? Thinking to myself.. well duh, but I don’t know. After having this permit, will I be able to carry a knife (dagger type) in my car?
 
the police went to there computor and look up all of the statues that have knifes in them for me. winter springs police are the nices police that I have ever had to deal with.
 
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