Plunge and grind with hand files

D

DirtyBrad

Joined
Dec 20, 2006
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I'm still working on my first knife, but am on my third attempt. I'm determined to get this done entirely by hand.

I've made huge leaps in my profile cutting/filing. I'm actually very proud of the second one in that respect. But my plunge is still very rough and I could use any tips or advice I can get.

I first tried running my file edge perpendicular at the plunge to define it, but that ended up looking terrible. After that, I clamped a piece of steel at the edge and started my draw filing from there, but I wasn't removing any metal at the very start where the plunge was supposed to be. I tried following that with a small round file run perpendicular, but ended up with a mess.

I know there must be a better way to do this, but I can't seem to come up with it.

My other issue is draw filing the grind. My technique improved a lot on the straight part of the blade, but the curve is still messing me up. This last one, I did the straight part first, then tried to do the curve as a series of straight lines, but it didn't come out well.

On both pieces, I wound up finishing the grind with perpendicular strokes. Which looked decent, but wasn't as consistent as the draw filing. I also would like a crisp edge between the flat part and the grind.

Anyway, I'll take whatever suggestions on either or both are out there. I don't mind going slow, I just want the result to be as nice as possible.
 
As I haven't completely filed a blade to profile before, take this advice with a grain of salt.

I have used a round file to start plunges before. Use a guide of some sort clamped to your blade where you want the plunge to be and use the round file to create the plunge working until the thickness at the edge is about a dime's thickness. A chainsaw file works best, IMO. Then, use your file you remove material from the rest of the bevel staying away from your clean plunge. Typically, you will use the file perpendicular to the edge to remove the bulk of material, and then use the draw filing technique to blend it all together and flatten it out. As you remove more and more material, you'll see you bevels beginning to match up with your plunge.

--nathan
 
I'll give it another try with the round cut first. I think I went too deep this last time.

I didn't have any trouble starting with the draw filing to remove the bulk of the metal. It's not the fastest thing in the world, but it's pleasant in its own way. Like I said, if the blade wasn't curved, that would have done a great job. I only switched to going perpendicular to get the round part at the end. And then had to start doing the same on the straight to match it up, if that makes sense.

I feel like people I've seen write about this are maybe doing the whole blade in one stroke? Mabye just curving the path of the file to match the edge?
 
The book How to Make Knives, by Robert Loveless and Richard Barney has a chapter on how to make a knife by hand. It has a lot of tips that may help.
 
I forge nearly all my knives so I dont really do much stock removal with a grinder or a file but one thing I don file is plunge cuts. I really do suck with a grinder so I stay well away from bits like the ricasso. Basicaly I only file in one direction, if I go back and forth I dont have the control I need. I also only use small files for the plunge cuts. I start with a flat file then move onto a very thin round needle file to get a nice smooth transition from blade to ricasso.

Hope this makes sense.

Jamie
 
When I started out, I made myself a little file guide out of a bit of 1095 with a straight edge (I either left it as quenched or tempered it only very slightly) and used a flat file perpendicular to the blade. (Although I like rounded plunges better now, back then I was doing them mostly flat and sharp. I think the advice on using the round file sounds good) Taking your time is really important at this step.
After I had the plunge done I'd move my guide up so I couldn't mess the plunge up anymore, and then did the rest of the bevel... it never came out very pretty, so I'd always spend a lot of time with sandpaper wrapped around various things to fix up the plunge and ricasso. Nowadays I have a 2x72 and use a sanding bar I made with one corner radiused.. it's nice for shaping up and polishing the plunge.

Part of it is just practice, and teaching your hands to hold angles precisely. Every knife you make should teach you something... and you'll accumulate tools that help you out. It's hard starting out, working for days on a knife, and then seeing some of these really gorgeous knives posted here... but it's a learning process :)

edit: embarrassing though it is, here's a picture I dug up of me working on one of my first.. I was starting the plunge here. My guide was under the little piece of leather (I think I was worried about cracking my guide if I just put the c-clamp right on it?)
Bevel_Start.jpg
 
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Thanks guys, sounds like I need to just slow it down a bit on the plunge. Going slower is definitely something I can manage.

How about draw filing around the front bend, am I missing something obvious on that?
 
Practice :D

...I know my first 8 or so knives all had little or no belly to them. When I did start adding more curve, when I cut the profiles, I'd leave a little nub at the tip... as if just the bevel extended past the clip of the spine? Once it was beveled, there wasn't much meat left to it and it filed right off. I don't know if it actually helped or not. I suppose it did let me see more easily if the angle of my filing was correct at the front end.
When working the belly of the blade, I tend to keep the hand holding the base/handle of the file pretty stationary, elbow locked, and just sort of pivot the working end of the file (not scrubbing back and forth, though)
 
DirtyBrad said:
So it's all one motion from the ricasso all the way to the tip then?
Click to expand...

Yes, it's all one motion or draw from plunge cut to tip. At least that's how I do or did it befor the grinder came into the picture. Ah the grinder what need I say more :D. Keep working at it and you will get it.
 
Are you using lay-out die or other method of seeing how the surface is changing as you work it?

You can get the same effect as lay-out die by using a different file or rubbing sand paper on the surface. You can then see the effect of your strokes with a lot more clarity, as well as see any portions of the surface that aren't coming into contact with your file/draw blade.
 
I have not mastered even plunges yet on my belt grinder, so also use a file to get them started, so I have an even starting point.
I designed and built this little tool (inspired by another's photograph), and have seen other designs out there.
Sort of a "poor man's milling machine":
http://www.stoneandsteel.net/equip_antirock.html

I love this little tool and use it for other filing work, whenever I want the file to stay steady. I also use it for sanding, sometimes.

I found using a hardened file guide (clamped to the knife) dulled my files (the side touching the guide) pretty quick, so gave that up for most situations in favor of this tool. But YMMV.
(I also actually created smooth edged files-ones with one side ground smooth-to rest against the guide, which did work, too. Many diff ways to get the job done.)

Brome
 
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