PM2 in S90V or 15V?

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Silent Communicator

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For the many of you that have both Spyderco S90V and Spyderco 15V, which do you consider less chippy? I've got all the Larrin Thomas charts downloaded and compared the two on paper. I see the difference in corrosion resistance, edge holding and toughness. However, if you're only judging how chippy it is in use and during sharpening, which one do you prefer or consider best?
 
Silent Communicator said:
For the many of you that have both Spyderco S90V and Spyderco 15V, which do you consider less chippy? I've got all the Larrin Thomas charts downloaded and compared the two on paper. I see the difference in corrosion resistance, edge holding and toughness. However, if you're only judging how chippy it is in use and during sharpening, which one do you prefer or consider best?
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If you're only concerned with chipping, then understand that the factory edge comes in at 17° degrees per side (DPS) which is too acute If you want serious durability on any knife/steel.

You should run the edge geometry closer to +20°DPS for more durability on any steel.


If you are using the knife like a cold chisel for non-cutting tasks than +25° DPS is more appropriate.



So why does Spyderco choose such an aggressive acute angle?

Well, it improves the cutting performance. You get more cutting edge retention when you use it for appropriate tasks. It also makes it cut better with less force and not to mention it makes it easier to tune up the edge when you have a more acute edge angle.

Remember, it's easier to make a more acute edge angle into a more obtuse edge angle than the other way around.

While unfortunately this post is not about steel, geometry comes first.
 
DeadboxHero said:
If you're only concerned with chipping, then understand that the factory edge comes in at 17° degrees per side (DPS) which is too acute If you want serious durability on any knife/steel.

You should run the edge geometry closer to +20°DPS for more durability on any steel.


If you are using the knife like a cold chisel for non-cutting tasks than +25° DPS is more appropriate.



So why does Spyderco choose such an aggressive acute angle?

Well, it improves the cutting performance. You get more cutting edge retention when you use it for appropriate tasks. It also makes it cut better with less force and not to mention it makes it easier to tune up the edge when you have a more acute edge angle.

Remember, it's easier to make a more acute edge angle into a more obtuse edge angle than the other way around.

While unfortunately this post is not about steel, geometry comes first.
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Yeah, all of my spydercos I don't really use for hard use, like on the farm. They just couldn't handle it. Due to the blade geometry including the primary and edge bevels. I'm sure both knives would not like the hard use: ie cutting cement bags or daily cutting of sand encrusted row fabric. I did have a pro venator or something like that from spyderco about 30 years ago
It was more durable, but couldn't hold an edge. The blade was thicker. I think was actually a steel handle lock back if I remember correctly.

Yes, geometry is the most important thing, but if the geometry was identical, I'm thinking that the S90V would probably do better. I found PM2 I like in it with green Lynch aluminum handles and a Lynch clip, however, I know the 15V M2 will be probably sold out forever soon too.
 
Silent Communicator said:
Yeah, all of my spydercos I don't really use for hard use, like on the farm. They just couldn't handle it. Due to the blade geometry including the primary and edge bevels. I'm sure both knives would not like the hard use: ie cutting cement bags or daily cutting of sand encrusted row fabric. I did have a pro venator or something like that from spyderco about 30 years ago
It was more durable, but couldn't hold an edge. The blade was thicker. I think was actually a steel handle lock back if I remember correctly.

Yes, geometry is the most important thing, but if the geometry was identical, I'm thinking that the S90V would probably do better. I found PM2 I like in it with green Lynch aluminum handles and a Lynch clip, however, I know the 15V M2 will be probably sold out forever soon too.
Click to expand...


Spyderco's wouldn't have any problem holding up to that stuff. It just depends on how you're cutting with it. Some guys will cut the top of the cement bag, other guys will stab the knife into the bag and run it through all the contents inside of it.

Give you a wild guess on which guy's knife is going to hold up better no matter what the steel or blade or edge geometry is.

Regardless, knife use 101 means that you always tune the geometry for what you need.

Yes, the CPM 15V is a very limited thing so it won't be around for long as an option.
 
DeadboxHero said:
Spyderco's wouldn't have any problem holding up to that stuff. It just depends on how you're cutting with it. Some guys will cut the top of the cement bag, other guys will stab the knife into the bag and run it through all the contents inside of it.

Give you a wild guess on which guy's knife is going to hold up better no matter what the steel or blade or edge geometry is.

Regardless, knife use 101 means that you always tune the geometry for what you need.

Yes, the CPM 15V is a very limited thing so it won't be around for long as an option.
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Haha, yeah I wouldn't run even my beater through the bag but I've seen it done before. I would leave the edge at 17 DPS until I dull it the might need to go more obtuse. I had 4 PM2's before, and the tip bent on one or two of them and I wasn't even cutting bags open. The tips are just so thin. They were in S30V. They definitely weren't suitable for much of anything. However I think I was carrying a Socom Elite or Sebenza before that, so I was used to actually having a durable tip. I thought it might have been a bad batch, (HT) but my brother who I didn't know even had a PM2 showed me his one day over at his house and his was the same way, he only was cutting boxes and doesn't use knives hard. Anyway, I don't know if he still has his or not. I will sleep on it and probably either buy both, or neither lol.
 
stillshot2 said:
That being said I do cut acidic/ salty things and not always have a way to wash my knife afterwards so I prefer the stainless steels. I've tried to convince myself patina is ok but my OCD won't let me haha.
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Yeah, I'm not a patina guy either. I'd wait for Magnamax in a Sebenza, but I don't think that Reeve will ever do it. It doesn't seem stainless enough for them. I know them, I was a CRK dealer back in the late 90's they were BG-42. They really like stainless steel lol.
 
Silent Communicator said:
Haha, yeah I wouldn't run even my beater through the bag but I've seen it done before. I would leave the edge at 17 DPS until I dull it the might need to go more obtuse. I had 4 PM2's before, and the tip bent on one or two of them and I wasn't even cutting bags open. The tips are just so thin. They were in S30V. They definitely weren't suitable for much of anything. However I think I was carrying a Socom Elite or Sebenza before that, so I was used to actually having a durable tip. I thought it might have been a bad batch, (HT) but my brother who I didn't know even had a PM2 showed me his one day over at his house and his was the same way, he only was cutting boxes and doesn't use knives hard. Anyway, I don't know if he still has his or not. I will sleep on it and probably either buy both, or neither lol.
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I haven't experienced that problem myself, but I do know that it's difficult for a lot of us to keep track of exactly what the edge makes contact with.

It's not like it's connected to our nervous system for us to feel if it's cutting or contacting something it's not supposed to.

I'm sure if our arms and legs were numb they would get into all kinds of trouble without us being able to feel it.

Stubbing our toes really hard makes us a lot more cautious about how we move around.


Speaking of robust tip geometry.

There is a model that is more stout in blade geometry design.

The Spyderco Shaman.

I believe there's also a lightweight version that has just been released.

They have made a 15V version but that will be difficult to obtain since the run has already been delivered and sold out. I believe they also have a s90v carbon fiber version? I'm not sure about the availability on those either since they were also a Sprint.
 
Alex @outdoors55 just released a good video on edge geometry. It is common sense, but fun to watch. He basically went zero edge, but made Rockstead look bad. Anyway now I'm getting off topic. Still not sure if 15V or S90V basically because looking at the tip of the M2 and PM2 almost makes them bend or break just looking at it. Sal even said the hollow ground Yojimbo had a very delicate tip at Shot Show.
 
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DeadboxHero said:
other guys will stab the knife into the bag and run it through all the contents inside of it
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I learned very quickly that's one of the many things shovels are made for. I'd be surprised if Spyderco hasn't made some sort of shovel.
 
FreeDumb said:
I learned very quickly that's one of the many things shovels are made for. I'd be surprised if Spyderco hasn't made some sort of shovel.
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They might have. But a shovel won't cut that fabric you see on the mounds of strawberry or Blueberry farms. Different farmers call it different things, but man it's a pain when mowing rows and it gets caught in your blades. If you don't cut it out it melts into something so hard it's literally like derlin and can need an angle grinder just to cut it off to sharpen the mover blades. The crap pictured below lol. Also, a picture of the only non American made knife I own. Made in Taiwan. There is a Benchmade Limited Edition Ares out there somewhere on those 550 acres that I lost when cutting that crap off in the field, then I put the knife on the mower deck and forget about it because someone pulled up and started talking to me. I drove off with it on the deck. It's the only knife I ever lost. It was M390 a $240 mistake.20230220_161836.jpg20230804_100641.jpg
 
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Need this in H2

HoriHoriClassic_PDP_01.jpg
 
I have a LW PM3 in 15V and "HAD" a S90 LW PM3.

15V was easier to sharpen. Edge retention foe me was about equal
IIRC it was said the if K390 and Maxamet had a kid. It would be 15V

Only draw back.. It isa Tool steel and needs appropriate care VS S90
 
I don't have s90v. But I do have a pm2 with 15v that I run at 15dps. I have never had any chipping out of this knife. Used on alot of stuff, not babied.
 
stillshot2 said:
Since he ranks them the same in toughness I personally would go with the one that is nearly stainproof (s90v) at the trade off of barely less edge retention.
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I was carrying my 15v knife today and was thinking. Not apples to apples here. Yeah theyre listed at the same toughness, but the 15v is the same toughness at 4+ hrc points harder than the s90v which i think gives an advantage to edge stability. Ive never had my 15v (or k390) roll on me.
 
elevator man said:
I was carrying my 15v knife today and was thinking. Not apples to apples here. Yeah theyre listed at the same toughness, but the 15v is the same toughness at 4+ hrc points harder than the s90v which i think gives an advantage to edge stability. Ive never had my 15v (or k390) roll on me.
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Larrin’s toughness rankings are not Rc defined. 15V and S90V have similar toughness. The BBB 15V is run around 65 while most makers do S90V around 60-62. S90V at 61 is tougher than 15V at 65. See the graphs here (toughness graph of stainless steels has S90V and toughness graph of tool steels has 15V):

knifesteelnerds.com

S90V and S125V Knife Steel - History, Properties, and How to Heat Treat - Knife Steel Nerds

S90V and S125V have the highest edge retention of any available stainless knife steels. What is the steel's history? How to heat treat?
knifesteelnerds.com knifesteelnerds.com
 
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