PM2, red loctite, stripped screw

Yes on the quality tools. I will add this. Even with Wiha, at times you either need an iron grip, or you need a Wiha with bigish handle to apply sufficient force both downward and lefty, when loosening. It doesn't take much to slip and cause enough damage to the screw head or the torx bit to get the ball rolling towards a stripped screw. I take all my knives apart, including three PM2s I been through. Only once did I have to use a soldering iron because there was no other way.

Good luck!
 
^

I am gonna say that the screws are NOT heat treated. Most stainless steel hardware is made from a 300 series stainless steel. The 300 series is made up of steels that contain at most .15% carbon and thus they cannot be heat treated. There is no way for a hair dryer to ruin their temper because they are not tempered. They can however be work hardened through cold working. Either cold rolling or drawing them through dies. I have no idea if they are or not. I would assume they are.
 
Whenever you feel any resistance... Stop and go get a heat gun, soldering iron or boil in water. Then loosen it. Assume it's red loctite.

Even with good tools it's not worth trying.
 
Most stainless steel small screws are 18-8 also similar alloys AISI 304 and 316.
These cannot be heat treat hardened due to alloy content however, can be work hardened which they obviously are in manufacturing by forming the Torx pocket with cold heading operations.

World standards for small machine screws makes these fasteners commonly available and (depending on country of manuf.) predictable high quality.

If for some technical reason one wanted a special alloy heat treated with say AISI 440C stainless steel material, they could be custom made for a very high unit price. The disadvantage is snapping the entire head away instead of deforming the Torx pocket. Heat treated steel will not be the best choice for small screws.

Most problems with Wiha drivers slipping are from poor technique,,,, place the knife on bench and press down with force to keep the driver engaged while torque is applied. Many options are available for larger diameter handles and small ratchet tools easily obtained for better force.
The low cost imported Torx drivers are usually tapered or out of spec. for size and will not fit up properly in the Torx pocket,, these will more easily slip out of engagement or distort the pocket.
Hand holding is also a potential disaster waiting to happen.

Regards,
FK
 
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Assuming any knife can be taken apart by anyone denies cutlers the respect they deserve. Just because it's small and looks relatively simple compared to a car, doesn't mean it can be readily taken apart w/o the correct tools, jigs, training and experience. This forum is filled with threads by people who goobered up knives by taking them apart. Rarely do they admit it's their fault, they always blame the manufacturer, the parts or their Torx bit. The problem is at the end of the bit's driver...their parents never taught them that childhood lesson "Don't fix something that's not broke." :)
 
brownshoe said:
Assuming any knife can be taken apart by anyone denies cutlers the respect they deserve. Just because it's small and looks relatively simple compared to a car, doesn't mean it can be readily taken apart w/o the correct tools, jigs, training and experience. This forum is filled with threads by people who goobered up knives by taking them apart. Rarely do they admit it's their fault, they always blame the manufacturer, the parts or their Torx bit. The problem is at the end of the bit's driver...their parents never taught them that childhood lesson "Don't fix something that's not broke." :)
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I politely disagree. This has nothing to do with respect for the manufacturer. This is a tool, not a Picasso. Well, some of the blades are work of art ;). And yes, taking a knife apart is simple. Simpler than most hobbies. Well, maybe stamp collecting...

Repair, maintenance, tuning, customization (a market out there which relies on knives being taken apart). All benefit from a knife with screw construction. In a way no different than sharpening a knife. Some do it very well, while others can screw it up.

I do agree that taking things apart is not everyone's strong point, and some tend to blame their mistakes on other factors. That is unfortunate.
 
I totally agree taking it apart is simple, it's putting it back together and getting it to work that's the problem for many if not most knife tinkerers.

About 10-15 years ago I got a few brand new Spydercos where the screws got loose within the first month, but I haven't gotten one in years. Locktite can be good :)
 
I haven't had any trouble removing clips from my Spyderco knives. I routinely do this for most knives I want to drop in my pocket. I have never wanted to take my Spydercos apart. However, I stopped buying knives from another knife company when I found that pivot screws would always lossen up pretty fast. This produced blade play. They did not use any Loctite. In fixing this, I went to the blue Loctite. I would rather see the blue goo on a pivot screw than nothing, but certainly not the red stuff.
 
I strongly suggest going with the boiling (technically not quite boiling, you want 190-200f water)

The problem with hair dryers and heat guns is the heat output varies drastically. It is possible to burn g10 or melt bearing carriers with a heat gun running at 450f.
 
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therealPlatonicForms said:
I strongly suggest going with the boiling (technically not quite boiling, you want 190-200f water)
Click to expand...
I typically use a double boiler setup, mainly cause my wife doesn't want me putting greasy knives in her pots :). Put the knife in a ziploc bag with some water, close it while pushing the air out. Get a pot of water up to boiling, turn the heat off. Wait maybe 30 seconds for the pot to dissipate the heat on the bottom, then drop the ziploc bag in and wait for the water to cool off. Works every time for me.
 
On the subject of Torx:

There is no benefit to having bunch of tiny teeth to line up when a slot or cross has more torque and more purchase. There is no magical transference of energy or precision to be gained by carving a star (or skull or dots or whatever other bow sheet) into a screw head.

All knife screws need to be flat or Phillips. Period.

That way, you could use a SCREWDRIVER on them. That's always a plus when trying to unscrew screws.

And yes. Knives are simple. Except for morons and elitists. Both of those types always have the ability to mess up anything they tackle. Not just knives.
 
You need to use a heat gun in the future. They are not the only company to do this. I have had problems with Kizer and Boker. A heat gun is readily available on the two popular mail order sites for around $20.00. You can also use it on Kydex sheaths to reshape if necessary. Please pay no attention to the Jack*F's that are belittling and nasty. All they do is Troll the threads and annoy people. Amazing how long it takes the Mod's to say something.
 
Josh K said:
This is obviously incorrect. TORX was designed to prevent cam-out and increase the amount of torque that can be applied to a given size fastener.
Click to expand...

So the story goes.

Simple physics and observation suggest otherwise.

That is like saying that a door with a solid steel custom knob on it will close further, and stay closed longer and tighter, than a door with a normal hollow brass handle. Asinine. The door does the work. The knob is just a variable interface for getting it there.

Regardless, a quarter inch long, mild steel micro screw holding a pocket knife together does not need a high level of torque or precision anyway. Like the door, a screw can only go until it stops. Done.

So again, no benefit from Torx. Except to manufacturers. Show me a knife that fell apart because of what kind of head was on the screw.

If Torx really had the mythical fastening power they claim, why the existence of this thread, or any of the countless others about Loc-tite on Torx fasteners?

A screw is a screw. It isn't complicated until someone needlessly makes it that way.

Just like knives.

(ETA : My annoyance and attitude is toward annoying trends and stupid people. Nothing to do with the OP or people with legitimate difficulty working on botched mechanical items. Too much Loc-tite is certainly an example of that)
 
emjay4248 said:
You need to use a heat gun in the future. They are not the only company to do this. I have had problems with Kizer and Boker. A heat gun is readily available on the two popular mail order sites for around $20.00. You can also use it on Kydex sheaths to reshape if necessary. Please pay no attention to the Jack*F's that are belittling and nasty. All they do is Troll the threads and annoy people. Amazing how long it takes the Mod's to say something.
Click to expand...
huh? whos jack*fs in this thread? im not catching the obvious, thanks.

edit part......thought it was a person named that..realized later quick reading failed me. i get what you said now, apologies.
 
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This is a cut and past of Spyderco's info on how to deal with loctite.

1) Ensure that you have the proper size Torx® driver for your screws and that the driver head is in good condition. A single-piece, screwdriver-style driver works best.
2) Place your knife on a workbench or other hard surface. Use a paper towel or rag to protect the handle from scratches.
3) Insert the tip of the Torx driver into the screw head and ensure that it fits properly.
4) Tap the handle of the driver several times with a hammer to “shock” the screw and break the Loctite bond.
5) Maintain a firm, constant, downward pressure on the Torx driver as you rotate it to remove the screw.
6) If this method is not successful on the first try, repeat as necessary or return your knife to Spyderco with $5.00 for return shipping. We will loosen your knife’s screws upon request.

Red loctite will release at 360F so heat guns risk melting G10 and boiling water won't get that hot.

As for the screw head interface I like double hex myself but I"m not sure if ones that small exist in affordable stainless steel or if they'd even be a benefit over Torx.

Both flat and cross heads will cam out of the slots. Torx will allow more force to be used. That's the simple physical truth. Some folks might prefer Robertson or another type but personal opinion doesn't alter reality.

 
uxo2 said:
sorry for your frustration.
It sounds like it will have to be sent in...
Whether Spyderco charges you is up to them...Call them and tell them what happened.

Also...
If it is in your ability to remove the screw without causing further damage.
Ask Spyderco if they can sell you a replacement screw.

I highly doubt a hair dryer softened the screw.
Because if it got that hot. I believe you would have smoked the scales too.

Next time use a Soldering Iron to apply direct heat on the screw.


FYI.

There is a big thread about Red Locktite and Spyderco saying they will no longer use it.
Click to expand...

+1 on the Soldering Iron, It’s a great way to loosen locktite. It’s also VERY hard to scorch G10.
Wiha Torx drivers are also the way to go, maybe heat it up and try a size larger if it’s stripped?
 
Danke42 said:
They didn't really change the policy they just clarified and publicized it.

You could always take them apart, but if you ham-fisted it you were on the hook.

To change one of those screws to a plastic state you'd want a hair dryer that would heat it up till it was red to cherry red. Just a note that your scales will vanish as part of this process.
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Um you really do not need to heat it up to glowing red, that is WAY excessive. If that was what people were doing no one would recommend it because it would, as you said, destroy your scales.

The best way I have found; to heat up and melt the locktite just touch a hot soldering iron to the screw just for a few seconds. This will transfer enough heat to soften the locktite.

The second best way I have found; heating up a fork on the stove then touching the offending screw with one of the heated tines of the fork. If at any time your fork is turning red you have gone way too hot.
 
Lapedog said:
Um you really do not need to heat it up to glowing red, that is WAY excessive. If that was what people were doing no one would recommend it because it would, as you said, destroy your scales.

The best way I have found; to heat up and melt the locktite just touch a hot soldering iron to the screw just for a few seconds. This will transfer enough heat to soften the locktite.

The second best way I have found; heating up a fork on the stove then touching the offending screw with one of the heated tines of the fork. If at any time your fork is turning red you have gone way too hot.
Click to expand...

The note is that you would need to heat the screw till it changed colour to "soften" the material. Not to break the loctite.
 
Just wanted to add - I recently got the new 52100 PM2 and just took it apart. I can happily report no red Loctite! I actually don't see any Loctite residue in the threads at all, and the knife came apart easily without any pre-heating or other tricks.

The peened lanyard tube is another story.
 
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