pnw wa/or police officers question

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bmw4life1

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May 9, 2009
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question for you guys/ gals in the PD i was talking to a guy at work today and he was saying it is a felony to get caught with a automatic knife(switch blade) on your in Oregon? i was under the impression that it was legal to carry a auto in Oregon but not in Washington, is this true and what is if any the penalty in Washington??

i have tried reading the laws but they dont make sense to me.

thank you

dylan
 
This would probably be more appropriately posted in the knife laws subforum, but:


If I'm reading the law correctly it looks like a Class B misdemeanor in Oregon and a Gross misdemeanor in Washington. Local laws could vary.

http://www.ebladestore.com/knife-laws-50-states.shtml

Oregon Public Order Offense 166.240 Carrying of concealed weapons. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, any person who carries concealed upon the person any knife having a blade that projects or swings into position by force of a spring or by centrifugal force, any dirk, dagger, ice pick, slungshot, metal knuckles, or any similar instrument by the use of which injury could be inflicted upon the person or property of any other person, commits a Class B misdemeanor.


Washington:

RCW 9.41.250
Dangerous weapons — Penalty.

Every person who:

(1) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;

(2) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

(3) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm,

is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.
 
Notice the Oregon law stressed "Carrying of concealed weapons" ... looks like you can carry an auto or bali on your belt.
 
This law would seem to outlaw the possession/carrying of any knife (bali, auto or locking folder) that can be opened by centrifugal force, similar to the NYS/NYC interpretation.
 
TOM1960 said:
This law would seem to outlaw the possession/carrying of any knife (bali, auto or locking folder) that can be opened by centrifugal force, similar to the NYS/NYC interpretation.
Click to expand...

Unless; of course, you use the actual definition of centrifugal force.
 
joe-bob said:
Unless; of course, you use the actual definition of centrifugal force.
Click to expand...

I had to laugh out loud when I read that. I wonder if any defendant has called a physics professor as an expert witness to beat a charge?
 
glistam said:
I had to laugh out loud when I read that. I wonder if any defendant has called a physics professor as an expert witness to beat a charge?
Click to expand...
It wouldn't matter if the expert witness had a Harvard PhD in physics. If you live in an anti-weapon, anti-self-defense state (ie: IL, NY, CA, MA, HI, NJ) and you are caught carrying such a knife, the sheeple who make up the jury are likely to find you guilty as charged.
 
TOM1960 said:
It wouldn't matter if the expert witness had a Harvard PhD in physics. If you live in an anti-weapon, anti-self-defense state (ie: IL, NY, CA, MA, HI, NJ) and you are caught carrying such a knife, the sheeple who make up the jury are likely to find you guilty as charged.
Click to expand...

Do you call that justice?

Just because it is popular to be dishonest doesn't mean it's right to be dishonest. It's amazing how many people do not understand that simple concept.
 
joe-bob said:
Do you call that justice?

Just because it is popular to be dishonest doesn't mean it's right to be dishonest. It's amazing how many people do not understand that simple concept.
Click to expand...
No, it most certainly is not justice. It is the reaction of scared sheeple who believe the government's (in this case, the police and/or prosecutor) take on what is or should be legal/illegal.
 
TOM1960 said:
It wouldn't matter if the expert witness had a Harvard PhD in physics. If you live in an anti-weapon, anti-self-defense state (ie: IL, NY, CA, MA, HI, NJ) and you are caught carrying such a knife, the sheeple who make up the jury are likely to find you guilty as charged.
Click to expand...

I live in MA. Nothing wrong with our knife laws here. Only things that are prohibited by state law are prohibited in most states. Daggers, autos, etc. Not too bad.
 
I used to be "ok" with knife laws. Back then, I was a sheep that collected knives. I can know say that all knife laws are wrong. Slippery slope in action. Ban one thing and the next thing will get banned too.
 
I know that a few times the definition of Centrifugal force has attempted to be introduced by the defense to explain that it is mis applied. The issue is a true gravity knife does not work via centrifugal force either as it only travels in and out of it handle by gravity or with the help of inertia. The courts have done what they always do and created case law to explain what they believe the law means. I disagree, but that said I am scared to see how many state laws actually ban any knife that can be flicked open. Yes, they don't enforce it much, but that could have been said of NYC a few years back too! In the NY law it requires tha blade to lock open, but many other states don't even require that! Here is the defintion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_force
 
Some of you might find it interesting to talk to a Physicist.

In order to flick a knife open and force it to lock takes more than one movement in more than one direction; this is no longer centrifugal force. Nor is it gravity or inertia, since those donot work in two directions at the same time.
 
Try explaining that to a jury. Don't forget that over 10 years ago, a jury ignored DNA evidence and let a murderer go free.
 
As a defense attorney, I plan on bringing some of these arguments to my next dangerous weapon defense - if it gets that far. I work in a county with a major municipality, and I can get funds for the expert - it would be worth it. I might start working with Knife Rights on this as well. Remember that alot of these laws target specific groups of people - bikers, gang members, minorities, etc. In that sense I consider them even more wrong, because they become a pretext to an arrest.
 
As a defense attorney, I plan on bringing some of these arguments to my next dangerous weapon defense - if it gets that far. I work in a county with a major municipality, and I can get funds for the expert - it would be worth it. I might start working with Knife Rights on this as well. Remember that alot of these laws target specific groups of people - bikers, gang members, minorities, etc. In that sense I consider them even more wrong, because they become a pretext to an arrest.
Click to expand...

Understand that for Washington state, these laws were created by more liberal members of the legislature with little regard for function, use, needs, etc. Despite what has been written in popular knife rags, clipped knives are NOT a pretext to stop. Hell, most of us on duty carry clipped knives on the uniforms. Again, it's not the knife that usually attracts attention, it's what a carrier is doing with it that garners attention.

Also understand that knife laws are often grossly out of date or fail to recognize new designs. This leads to inaccurate interpretation by misinformed prosecutors, investigators and street cops. In many cases with the current laws, that it good because if the laws were changed to reflect that, much of what all of us carry would be deemed illegal.

To the OP, you have the RCW for Washington posted. In short, the determinations from the AGs office has been knife that use a single motion to open (press a button, blade comes out) is illegal and considered an "automatic." However, a spring assisted folder which also requires slightly more single motion, is still legal. A knife that openes with a press of a button is verboten. A knife that can be as quickly flicked open (such as my well used BM CQC7) is still legal.

Clear as mud, right?

But the reality is that if you are contacted and found to be in possession of an automatically opening knife, you would potentially face charges. About a year ago, the law was changed so that ON-DUTY LEOs could carry/use automatic knives. However, you could transport to/from your home to work but not carry it off duty. Again, more twisted nonsense. Which is why I carry a "spring assisted" knife on duty, standard folder off.

Laws like these do more harm than good. They always have, despite what the "for the children" crowd say.
 
you can carry autos in OR they just can't be concealed.

MA? I understand it is one of the few states that knives cannot be shipped to.
 
TheCarbideRat said:
you can carry autos in OR they just can't be concealed.

MA? I understand it is one of the few states that knives cannot be shipped to.
Click to expand...

Where did you get that understanding? MA has no stated length restriction, and pretty much has the standard auto and double edged language you see in alot of places.
 
MA was listed as a state that was excluded from being delivered to along with NY CA and some others in quite a few ads for knives in magazines when I used to live there. I was told [forgot by who] that even steak knives could not be bought through the mail. Moved away in 2002 ... so maybe the law has changed??
 
Nope, law has been the same for some time. Which publications are you referring to specifically. It is possible that some of them chose not to ship anything to MA, but there is no prohibition in the law to having a knife delivered via mail here. I know that some places will not send throwing knives, because they think it is too close a definition to shuriken or throwing star that is in the statute.
 
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