Pocket Clip Design

[danbot]

You know with your design the knife wouldn't go all the way onto a pocket right ?
I'd say with most jeans you'd probably get the clip on 75%.

Not my design, but regardless, I'm not seeing what you mean.

 

[Hickory n steel]

Not my design, but regardless, I'm not seeing what you mean.

It's flat against the knife so when opened the space between clip and knife will be in the form of an acute triangle, furthermore the end of the clip would be sticking up due to the hard seam of a pair of jeans.

His first drawing of the clip on a knife shows what I'm talking about perfectly.
See how wide it would have to open for your pocket edge to get all the way in ?

 

[danbot]

It's flat against the knife so when opened the space between clip and knife will be in the form of an acute triangle, furthermore the end of the clip would be sticking up due to the hard seam of a pair of jeans.
I'll have to draw a picture of what I'm talking about.

Oh, okay. I see it now. Needs some refinement to overcome that. I'll mess around with it as time permits!

 

[danbot]

It's flat against the knife so when opened the space between clip and knife will be in the form of an acute triangle, furthermore the end of the clip would be sticking up due to the hard seam of a pair of jeans.

His first drawing of the clip on a knife shows what I'm talking about perfectly.
See how wide it would have to open for your pocket edge to get all the way in ?

Better?

 

[Hickory n steel]

Better?

Well I think something along these lines would do it.

 

[r8shell]

I have no idea how the mechanism works, but I've got an old pen with a clip that lies flat and lifts up when you press down on the button on the cap.

 

[danbot]

Better?

I modeled it up for ya! Let me know when you want to go into full production!

 

[danbot]

What do you think of the newest design?

 

[SpySmasher]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I have a revised design that incorporates your feedback as well as the revised design danbot posted.

Some people mentioned the various Hawk articulated clip designs. I haven't tried the one that @BilboBaggins posted but I have tried the other one on various models. This design is intended to solve the same issue that the Hawk's design addresses: getting good retention on a clip that is also easy to get over a thick pair of jeans. However, it also aims to solve the problem of a raised clip causing a hotspot in your palm during extended cutting. This clip design is intended to lay flat against the scale/be recessed into the scale when it is in your hand.

The dashed lines represent the possibility of designing a knife specifically with this type of clip. That way you could leave a notch in the rear of the frame for the clip to hide in. That solves some of the "tab protruding too high" problem.

Interesting, the only thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is which side the 'tab' should be on.

I'm going to go with the tab on the "clip" side as shown in the isometric drawing, not on the screw side as shown in the section drawing

In your section drawing it looks like your clip is oriented for right hand tip up Carry, so to release the tension you would have to press the tab into your leg.

I decided that it needs to go on the pants side for the single reason that the most user friendly way of opening it is to pinch the knife between thumb and pointer finger exactly as if the diagram above is for right-hand, tip-up carry.

I have two initial concerns: first, your flex stress is applied to a very small area. It might be prone to fatigue failure.

Metal fatigue would snap it.

Very good point. Working from the revised design that danbot posted, I think a full teardrop design might be better, allowing the stress and flex to occur over more of the length of the clip, but I'm not an engineer.

You know with your design the knife wouldn't go all the way onto a pocket right ?

This is a good point that I think danbot addressed pretty well and that I have used in my revised design. It's somewhat related to:

Second: I'm not sure how the clip would respond on thick materials like jeans and cargo pants. I'm thinking the clip would stay flexed and proud on thick materials. You might have a protruding pecker.

This is a good point and I don't know the answer. It might depend somewhat on how springy the clip material is. Also the revised "teardrop" design might help.

With this design you're making the end of the knife longer by the length of the tab.

Not sure Id like to have the top bit of the clip in the OP protruding up and over the knife.

Interesting but not sure how I feel about a tab or something similar sticking out the top.

My concern with the original drawing is the size of the tab.

Yeah, that occurred to me too. Obviously, the tab should be as short as possible but still allow good torque to be applied. The revised design shows the tab angled out (which obviously presents its own problems) but allows for a shorter, "torqier" tab. Some testing would need to be done. However, if the frame was designed with a notch for this clip to hide in, that would be a big help.

 

[matt009au]

Looks interesting mate.
Tab looks like it may be too small to get enough leverage on?

I very much like the hawk clip so following with interest.

 

[danbot]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I have a revised design that incorporates your feedback as well as the revised design danbot posted.

Some people mentioned the various Hawk articulated clip designs. I haven't tried the one that @BilboBaggins posted but I have tried the other one on various models. This design is intended to solve the same issue that the Hawk's design addresses: getting good retention on a clip that is also easy to get over a thick pair of jeans. However, it also aims to solve the problem of a raised clip causing a hotspot in your palm during extended cutting. This clip design is intended to lay flat against the scale/be recessed into the scale when it is in your hand.

The dashed lines represent the possibility of designing a knife specifically with this type of clip. That way you could leave a notch in the rear of the frame for the clip to hide in. That solves some of the "tab protruding too high" problem.



I decided that it needs to go on the pants side for the single reason that the most user friendly way of opening it is to pinch the knife between thumb and pointer finger exactly as if the diagram above is for right-hand, tip-up carry.


Very good point. Working from the revised design that danbot posted, I think a full teardrop design might be better, allowing the stress and flex to occur over more of the length of the clip, but I'm not an engineer.

This is a good point that I think danbot addressed pretty well and that I have used in my revised design. It's somewhat related to:

This is a good point and I don't know the answer. It might depend somewhat on how springy the clip material is. Also the revised "teardrop" design might help.




Yeah, that occurred to me too. Obviously, the tab should be as short as possible but still allow good torque to be applied. The revised design shows the tab angled out (which obviously presents its own problems) but allows for a shorter, "torqier" tab. Some testing would need to be done. However, if the frame was designed with a notch for this clip to hide in, that would be a big help.

I'll work on the teardrop design and I think it should be made out of something like 5620. A good spring steel! With a spring temper it would last a long time.

 

[Hickory n steel]

I have no idea how the mechanism works, but I've got an old pen with a clip that lies flat and lifts up when you press down on the button on the cap.
View attachment 813438 View attachment 813437

I can easily see this mechanism fitting inside a knife scale, however it may not be super robust and would probably only end up in use on a small custom or midtech gentleman's type folder.

 

[Hickory n steel]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I have a revised design that incorporates your feedback as well as the revised design danbot posted.

Some people mentioned the various Hawk articulated clip designs. I haven't tried the one that @BilboBaggins posted but I have tried the other one on various models. This design is intended to solve the same issue that the Hawk's design addresses: getting good retention on a clip that is also easy to get over a thick pair of jeans. However, it also aims to solve the problem of a raised clip causing a hotspot in your palm during extended cutting. This clip design is intended to lay flat against the scale/be recessed into the scale when it is in your hand.

The dashed lines represent the possibility of designing a knife specifically with this type of clip. That way you could leave a notch in the rear of the frame for the clip to hide in. That solves some of the "tab protruding too high" problem.



I decided that it needs to go on the pants side for the single reason that the most user friendly way of opening it is to pinch the knife between thumb and pointer finger exactly as if the diagram above is for right-hand, tip-up carry.


Very good point. Working from the revised design that danbot posted, I think a full teardrop design might be better, allowing the stress and flex to occur over more of the length of the clip, but I'm not an engineer.

This is a good point that I think danbot addressed pretty well and that I have used in my revised design. It's somewhat related to:

This is a good point and I don't know the answer. It might depend somewhat on how springy the clip material is. Also the revised "teardrop" design might help.




Yeah, that occurred to me too. Obviously, the tab should be as short as possible but still allow good torque to be applied. The revised design shows the tab angled out (which obviously presents its own problems) but allows for a shorter, "torqier" tab. Some testing would need to be done. However, if the frame was designed with a notch for this clip to hide in, that would be a big help.

Definitely seems to have worked out all potential issues.

 

[danbot]

I can easily see this mechanism fitting inside a knife scale, however it may not be super robust and would probably only end up in use on a small custom or midtech gentleman's type folder.

And that in itself would be pretty cool!!

 

[Lapedog]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I have a revised design that incorporates your feedback as well as the revised design danbot posted.

Some people mentioned the various Hawk articulated clip designs. I haven't tried the one that @BilboBaggins posted but I have tried the other one on various models. This design is intended to solve the same issue that the Hawk's design addresses: getting good retention on a clip that is also easy to get over a thick pair of jeans. However, it also aims to solve the problem of a raised clip causing a hotspot in your palm during extended cutting. This clip design is intended to lay flat against the scale/be recessed into the scale when it is in your hand.

The dashed lines represent the possibility of designing a knife specifically with this type of clip. That way you could leave a notch in the rear of the frame for the clip to hide in. That solves some of the "tab protruding too high" problem.



I decided that it needs to go on the pants side for the single reason that the most user friendly way of opening it is to pinch the knife between thumb and pointer finger exactly as if the diagram above is for right-hand, tip-up carry.


Very good point. Working from the revised design that danbot posted, I think a full teardrop design might be better, allowing the stress and flex to occur over more of the length of the clip, but I'm not an engineer.

This is a good point that I think danbot addressed pretty well and that I have used in my revised design. It's somewhat related to:

This is a good point and I don't know the answer. It might depend somewhat on how springy the clip material is. Also the revised "teardrop" design might help.




Yeah, that occurred to me too. Obviously, the tab should be as short as possible but still allow good torque to be applied. The revised design shows the tab angled out (which obviously presents its own problems) but allows for a shorter, "torqier" tab. Some testing would need to be done. However, if the frame was designed with a notch for this clip to hide in, that would be a big help.

My Extrema Ratios have clips like this that go over the butt of the knife. They don’t have a tab that lets you lever the clip open. (You could just pull on the end of the clip with your finger tip)

There is a major issue with these “over the butt” style clips. Sometimes the fabric from the lip of your pocket goes up over the top and gets stuck in the space between the rear end of the knife and the horizontal part of the clip that spans that rear of the knife. When this happens it prevents you from pulling out the knife. (You won’t notice it happening until you try to draw the knife and it won’t unclip) It hallens enough on the Extrema Ratios I felt it was worth mentioning.

 

[SpySmasher]

There is a major issue with these “over the butt” style clips. Sometimes the fabric from the lip of your pocket goes up over the top and gets stuck in the space between the rear end of the knife and the horizontal part of the clip that spans that rear of the knife. When this happens it prevents you from pulling out the knife. (You won’t notice it happening until you try to draw the knife and it won’t unclip) It hallens enough on the Extrema Ratios I felt it was worth mentioning.

Interesting. Do you think that would happen if the clip was notched into the back of the knife as in my diagram (with the dashed lines)? It doesn't seem like it would.

 

[vanadium]

You'll need 2 screws per arm like the design pictured below, otherwise the tension during flexure will be translated into a counter-clockwise (as seen from the screw side) canting of the arms, with the screw acting as an axle and loosening.

 

[Sonnydaze]

With this design you're making the end of the knife longer by the length of the tab. Springy clip idea is nice, CRK has a G&G Hawk design which does something similar (function wise, not design wise).
View attachment 813169

I was waiting for that one to show up...a neat design...