Pocket knife of the 1800's west?

[LeatherMan64]

A Large jack knife pattern and a Green River style, maybe?

 

[JAlexander]

I don't know what the cowboys would have carried, but like a lot of us I think it was most likely a jack knife with two blades. I'll go a little farther, though, and say that if stag wasn't a premium material with a much higher price, many of them would have sprung for it. Not just because it's pretty, but because a gnarly stag handle offers a better grip with cold/wet/mucky hands than a smooth ebony handle.

I actually heard that song on the radio not too long ago, Jack. Our local NPR station has a program that's all folk music from the British Isles, and the host played that and a few other songs from the northern parts of England.

 

[Jack Black]

My father found a few of the Time Life Old West leather bound books when I was a kid. I don't remember any of the knives off the top of my head, but I do remember the book explicitly relating that high noon gun fights were a rarity. Most killing was done with a shotgun, at close range, usually from behind.

I'm sure we all remember what happened to Liberty Valance!

Ah, this thread reminds me!

I was at the museum in Fort Collins, CO around Christmas, and they had a little display of the personal effects of a soldier who had been posted there around 1865. So for what it's worth, Sergeant Luther Remington carried this:

My cellphone is a pretty horrible camera, but, from memory:
--Main blade is a sheepsfoot somewhere between 2.5" and 3"
--A small pen secondary is tucked in front of it, all but invisible in the picture
--Corkscrew and hoof pick(?) on the side opposite
--The handle seemed to be bone or ivory

All in all, it seemed like a pretty handy thing for a cavalryman to have, and quite a bit fancier than I would've expected.

Wow, great post :thumbup:

Jack, I almost choked on my coffee reading that! That's classic and I'm going to look for it when I get home tonight. I'll post it here if I can find it. Maybe someone else will beat me to it hint hint nudge nudge .

Sorry, I'd have posted it myself, but my internet connection is really bad today and videos are just coming up blank

[video=youtube;cey_4r-ILxs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cey_4r-ILxs[/video]

Thanks a lot :thumbup: I'll look forward to watching this when my connection is better!

I actually heard that song on the radio not too long ago, Jack. Our local NPR station has a program that's all folk music from the British Isles, and the host played that and a few other songs from the northern parts of England.

That's a coincidence! I haven't heard the song in years. By chance, I used to write for one of the same magazines as Mike Harding (who ended up being President of the UK Ramblers' Association), and we have mutual friends, not just in the folk music fraternity, or the outdoor one, but I used to shoot with a pal of his, a small-time singer called Tony Capstick, in the 80's. The first time he came to our range the range-master had a look at the signing-in book and shouted, "Which blithering idiot has written 'Tony Capstick' in the range book?!"

 

[Woodrow F Call]

Thank you Ken, I couldn't recall who had that photo. I love it,, and it's surprising that in 1856, that display shows a really wide varriety of pocket knives, in both size and patterns. I'm always surprised at the congress patterns. I guess I always thought of the congress as a southern planter type of thing.

You're rght about the perception that everyone carried a Colt revolver. The darn thing cost more than most people made in a month or two. Not too mention there were Remngtons, Spiller and Burr, Adams, and a host of other guns more affordable. And every sodbuster, saloon or store keep, stage guard and marshall had a shotgun. Side by side barrels stuffed with blue whistlers end a fight real quick.

Carl.

There were quite a few revolvers out and available, and there were quite a few colts. After the CW, many would have bought surplus. Metallic cartridge pistols drove down the price of a cap and ball revolver which many used.... also some turned to conversions which were cheaper than Colt's 1873 Single Action Army. Even Bill Hickok stuck with .36 caliber cap and ball Colt 1851 Navy's till his death.

 

[AKC]

This thread is sooooo full of win!!!!

 

[Humppa]

In Germany / Austria during this time were the "Trattenbacher Taschenzaunkerl" - a friction folder - pretty common. My grandma (born 1918) told me, that these knives were carried ever since she could think. They were used by farmers and craftsmen.

Next to the Hippekniep (better known as Sodbuster nowadays) - which was a pretty much carried pattern all around. The Mercator came later to the civil market.

Maybe I can remember more patterns that have been carried in those days in the "Old World".

 

[Curtis_Lowe]

There were quite a few revolvers out and available, and there were quite a few colts. After the CW, many would have bought surplus. Metallic cartridge pistols drove down the price of a cap and ball revolver which many used.... also some turned to conversions which were cheaper than Colt's 1873 Single Action Army. Even Bill Hickok stuck with .36 caliber cap and ball Colt 1851 Navy's till his death.

I've heard the smith & wesson schofield was very popular as well. It was a break top revolver so you could reload it much easier even while on horseback. I imagine it was relatively cheap, since S&W kept getting government contracts for it cancelled.

 

[akadave2]

Thank you Ken, I couldn't recall who had that photo. I love it,, and it's surprising that in 1856, that display shows a really wide varriety of pocket knives, in both size and patterns. I'm always surprised at the congress patterns. I guess I always thought of the congress as a southern planter type of thing.

You're rght about the perception that everyone carried a Colt revolver. The darn thing cost more than most people made in a month or two. Not too mention there were Remngtons, Spiller and Burr, Adams, and a host of other guns more affordable. And every sodbuster, saloon or store keep, stage guard and marshall had a shotgun. Side by side barrels stuffed with blue whistlers end a fight real quick.

Carl.

From what I have read, there were far far more patterns then than there are today. It is surprising still. Pocketknives were big business

 

[Thomason]

That picture Ken posted is now my computer wallpaper. Really looks cool. Thanks, Ken.:thumbup:

 

[300Bucks]

FYI




Teddy Roosevelt's Tiffany Bowie Knife

Teddy Roosevelt's Knife

Theodore Roosevelt was the first and only President to kill a cougar with a knife. [1901].

From Roosevelt's cowboy days in the Dakota Territory, Teddy carried his sterling silver hunting knife made by Tiffany & Co., dated 1884. When his wife and mother both died on the same day, February 14, 1884, Roosevelt went west to the badlands of Dakota, and threw himself into hard work and long days herding cattle. The ranch hands ridiculed his fancy clothes, meticulous grammar, and Tiffany-inscribed knife.

Theodore Roosevelt’s Letters to His Children:

Keystone Ranch, Colo., Jan. 14th, 1901 -
"Soon we saw the lion in a treetop, with two of the dogs so high up among the branches that he was striking at them. He was more afraid of us than of the dogs, and as soon as he saw us he took a great flying leap and was off, the pack close behind. In a few hundred yards they had him up another tree. This time, after a couple of hundred yards, the dogs caught him, and a great fight followed. They could have killed him by themselves, but he bit or clawed four of them, and for fear he might kill one I ran in and stabbed him behind the shoulder, thrusting the knife right into his heart. I have always wished to kill a cougar as I did this one, with dogs and the knife.”

On March 23rd, 1909, Roosevelt went on safari in Africa. The trip was sponsored by the Smithsonian Institution and the National Geographic Society and received worldwide media attention. Despite his commitment to conservation, his party killed over 6,000 animals, including some of the last remaining white rhino.


In the photo, Theodore Roosevelt is seen with his highly-decorated deer-skin hunting suit, and Tiffany-carved hunting knife and rifle. Photographed by George Grantham Baine in 1885 in New York City. Public domain from many sources.


Source: Wikipedia®




© 2007 - Sarasota Florida Knife Collectors Club


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



From T.R. National Park, North Dakota Website.


Theodore Roosevelt's hunting knife

NPS

Imagine Roosevelt sizing up a deer through the sight of his triple-barreled gun, rocking in a chair while sharpening his knife, or brushing the dust off his riding clothes after a long day in the saddle. These are the personal possessions that enabled Roosevelt to seek the type of adventure he desired in this rough country. In turn, the experience exerted a major influence on his life, philosophy, and politics, influencing the conservation policies he sought as President

 

[Woodrow F Call]

I've heard the smith & wesson schofield was very popular as well. It was a break top revolver so you could reload it much easier even while on horseback. I imagine it was relatively cheap, since S&W kept getting government contracts for it cancelled.

They were to an extent. It came out earlier than the Colt open tops or SAA, but didn't beat the slower to load Colts. I think that the SAA was more durable, fired a more powerful round, could fire the Schofield round (where the S&W couldn't fire the .45 Colt), and apparently didn't need to be cleaned as much as the S&W did. I guess those reasons are why the S&W didn't rule the west.

Don't forget the Remingtons, those were cool guns too.

 

[Jack Black]

I've heard the smith & wesson schofield was very popular as well. It was a break top revolver so you could reload it much easier even while on horseback. I imagine it was relatively cheap, since S&W kept getting government contracts for it cancelled.

It worked for Clint in The Unforgiven!

 

[Woodrow F Call]

From what I have read, there were far far more patterns then than there are today. It is surprising still. Pocketknives were big business

Wow. I guess they though up a bunch and we refined them down to what they are today. I was going to ask does anyone make a modern repro of those knives, but they look a lot like some we have today.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

It worked for Clint in The Unforgiven!

There are a few good Schofield scenes in 3:10 to Yuma.

 

[jackknife]

They were to an extent. It came out earlier than the Colt open tops or SAA, but didn't beat the slower to load Colts. I think that the SAA was more durable, fired a more powerful round, could fire the Schofield round (where the S&W couldn't fire the .45 Colt), and apparently didn't need to be cleaned as much as the S&W did. I guess those reasons are why the S&W didn't rule the west.

Don't forget the Remingtons, those were cool guns too.

Not to mention that domestic U.S. sales of the S&W revolvers was but a small drop in the bucket of the overall sales of Smith and Wesson. When they held the patent on the bored through cylinder and Colt still had to stick with the cap and ball revolver, S&W went and got a huge amount of foreign contracts, to include a masive one with Russia, to arm the Czar's troops with the top break revolvers. Hence the model the Smith and Wesson Russian. Over the last part of the 19th century, Russia and other European countries and Latin American countries bought so many S&W revolvers that S&W could almost ignore U.S. sales. However, Wells Fargo and some other organizations bought the top breaks for their guards, and it was a favorite with some of the Youngers and Daltons.

George Custer was a fan of them, but I don't think it did him any good in the end.

Russia stayed with the S&W model 3 revolver right up to the adoption of the Nagant revolver at he dawn of the Bolshivek revolution. 1870 to 1915.

Carl.

 

[festerfromnzed]

These??

 

[Curtis_Lowe]

Russia stayed with the S&W model 3 revolver right up to the adoption of the Nagant revolver at he dawn of the Bolshivek revolution. 1870 to 1915.

The Russians ripped off the design and stopped buying S&W made Model 3's. They could make it themselves for cheaper. I think the Russians even began selling the revolvers as well

 

[Woodrow F Call]

Not to mention that domestic U.S. sales of the S&W revolvers was but a small drop in the bucket of the overall sales of Smith and Wesson. When they held the patent on the bored through cylinder and Colt still had to stick with the cap and ball revolver, S&W went and got a huge amount of foreign contracts, to include a masive one with Russia, to arm the Czar's troops with the top break revolvers. Hence the model the Smith and Wesson Russian. Over the last part of the 19th century, Russia and other European countries and Latin American countries bought so many S&W revolvers that S&W could almost ignore U.S. sales. However, Wells Fargo and some other organizations bought the top breaks for their guards, and it was a favorite with some of the Youngers and Daltons.

George Custer was a fan of them, but I don't think it did him any good in the end.

Russia stayed with the S&W model 3 revolver right up to the adoption of the Nagant revolver at he dawn of the Bolshivek revolution. 1870 to 1915.

Carl.

I read that it almost bankrupted S&W. Russia had copies made, and wasn't really good about paying S&W. I really should read some history books on those two companies. I'm sure it was interesting. I got a little taste of it reading "Empire of the Summer Moon" and how the Texas Rangers ended up buying many of Colt's guns...... eventually helping Samuel Colt out of Bankruptcy.

 

[quattromori]

Folks,
I don't think I can contribute to this thread in any decent way. The only thing I know, is that it's hard for me to believe that people back then carried expensive knives. Not on average, at least. For the same reason why, in 100 years from now, I guess no one should think that every motorbiker in early 2000's rode a Ducati or every farmer drove a Hummer.
Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks cause I'm really enjoying this thread so you can go on full throttle

Fausto

 

[Woodrow F Call]

Folks,
I don't think I can contribute to this thread in any decent way. The only thing I know, is that it's hard for me to believe that people back then carried expensive knives. Not on average, at least. For the same reason why, in 100 years from now, I guess no one should think that every motorbiker in early 2000's rode a Ducati or every farmer drove a Hummer.
Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks cause I'm really enjoying this thread so you can go on full throttle

Fausto

I think you are right, but I don't think knives were as expensive as today..... plus I bet second hand was quite common.