Police and Knives

[glistam]

Time for another question regarding the police and knives.

Provided your state has done like several others and eliminated its provisions on what amounts to criminal possession of an illegal knife and there's now no legally enforceable standard for an illegal knife, can they bust you if they find you carrying an improvised cutting or sharp implement?

Not sure if I understood correctly, because the term "possession" generally means having control over something, including just owning it at home and keeping it in a drawer. Such restrictions on mere owning are extremely rare and even where they exist are limited to switchblades and ballistic knives. If the state has no such law, and has repealed all restrictions on the carry of knives on your person as well, then the answer is no, you cannot be busted for carrying an improvised item. If there is literally no law against it, any cop even so much as making the arrest would be guilty of false-arrest and liable in federal court.

Take Arizona for example. If your over 21, you can carry anything, even a katana or a gun. The only way to get busted is if you are stopped by police and you try to conceal the presence of the weapon from the officer or if you commit a violent act with it.

 

[NMpops]

"Take Arizona for example. If your over 21, you can carry anything, even a katana or a gun. The only way to get busted is if you are stopped by police and you try to conceal the presence of the weapon from the officer or if you commit a violent act with it.[/QUOTE]

Not quite true. In Arizona, a knife is not considered a weapon unless you use it as such or it can be shown you had intent to do so. If a police officers inquires about weapons, you do not need to tell him about your knives as they are tools, not weapons.

 

[mitsaru]

Here in Colorado I have never been asked about my knife from law enforcement, our Denver court houses even let you carry as long as the blade is under 3.5 inches. I have had a park ranger stop to talk about a el cheapo fixed blade Winchester that I carry when camping and that was to asked how I like it.

 

[NukerCC]

Has anyone got any legal knowledge of how a officer might measure your blade length.

We have a 3inch blade law in the state of Michigan and I carry a 'spyderco stretch' for work an my every day use. My question is that my total length of the steel that folds out from the handle, Cutting Edge and Choil(jimping area) are over 3inchs. Now I carry this knife legally in my head because my cutting edge is 3 inchs, when the jimping area length is added in it would be a 3 1/2inch blade does that make my knife illegal to carry here...

Would an officer measure just the cutting edge or total length of steel(cutting edge and choil) that folds from the handle? I hope this is clear to understand, I want to obey the law yet if an officer is measuring my total length of steel with the non-sharpened jimping area added in is that legal for him to bring me to court? or is this something that I would need to argue about the correct Start position and Stop position of their measurement.

 

[glistam]

Has anyone got any legal knowledge of how a officer might measure your blade length.

We have a 3inch blade law in the state of Michigan and I carry a 'spyderco stretch' for work an my every day use. My question is that my total length of the steel that folds out from the handle, Cutting Edge and Choil(jimping area) are over 3inchs. Now I carry this knife legally in my head because my cutting edge is 3 inchs, when the jimping area length is added in it would be a 3 1/2inch blade does that make my knife illegal to carry here...

Would an officer measure just the cutting edge or total length of steel(cutting edge and choil) that folds from the handle? I hope this is clear to understand, I want to obey the law yet if an officer is measuring my total length of steel with the non-sharpened jimping area added in is that legal for him to bring me to court? or is this something that I would need to argue about the correct Start position and Stop position of their measurement.

Like most states, the law simply does not say one way or the other. Your typical competent officer in such an area will measure from the top of the handle, including the choil. Some officers still use their palm which is never legal but it happens.

But there is a more important matter to consider. When an officer is measuring your blade, no matter the method, you already might have a problem. Why is he or she even looking? What did you do that made them think they needed to check? Much as we obsess over length limits, the reason for the encounter is much more important. Knife carry laws actually have nothing to do with preventing crime. They are to provide technicalities to make an arrest or search of a person who is acting suspiciously but not overtly breaking the law.

 

[NukerCC]

Thanks for replying, I will need to find me a shorter blade.

I have never been stopped or questioned about the knife that I am carrying. This was just a concern to me because the choil on my knife stretches the legal limits in my state.
Anyone could be put in a situation where they have to talk to an officer where that individual did nothing at all to engage this conversation. Just the other week I was on a job working on the back side of a residence in a large subdivision, an someone who was hitting golf balls into the common pond shot one through a ladys window... well the golfer had taken off and I was the only one left in the area than having to deal with a older lady accusing me of shooting golf balls into her house while i'm clearly working hard. She reports this to the police an one officer had shown up soon after to talk with me. I carry my knife on my waist band with a shirt tucked in so my carry is always visible to others and this brought up my concern to check out if im carrying a legal knife.

 

[Shamrockninja]

I carry a legal buck 119 on my belt every day for work. I'm constantly in gas stations, stores, etc where I see cops and border patrol regularly. I have never had a single look from any of them.
Oif I was asked, I would say I am too old and too civilized to claw and gnaw packages and dvd boxes like a little animal ;-)

 

[Shamrockninja]

I carry a legal buck 119 on my belt every day for work. I'm constantly in gas stations, stores, etc where I see cops and border patrol regularly. I have never had a single look from any of them.
Oif I was asked, I would say I am too old and too civilized to claw and gnaw packages and dvd boxes like a little animal ;-)

 

[glistam]

I carry my knife on my waist band with a shirt tucked in so my carry is always visible to others and this brought up my concern to check out if im carrying a legal knife.

That raises a different matter. When I asked the question of why the officer would look, I was operating under the assumption the knife was carried concealed. In most states only concealed carry has the restriction (either on length or knife type or both) while open carry is legal no matter what size knife you have. Thus if the knife is plainly visible, it doesn't matter if the blade is longer and the cop sees it because it's not illegal anyway. Whereas if it was concealed, the cop would have to be searching you for some reason. Searching you with no reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing is illegal.

On checking Michigan's current law, it appears that Michigan does not have a hard 3" limit. The law says:

Any person who, with intent to use the same unlawfully against the person of another, goes armed with a pistol or other firearm or dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or knife having a blade over 3 inches in length...

Source: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-226

This would make sense why the officer did not even bring the topic of the knife up. Nothing about your story indicates you were intending to do violence, and the officers call-up (even if based on a false report) was for at worst an act of negligent property damage. Therefore it would not matter that you knife is over the limit because there is no evidence of intent.

 

[Bob6794]

Has anyone got any legal knowledge of how a officer might measure your blade length.

We have a 3inch blade law in the state of Michigan and I carry a 'spyderco stretch' for work an my every day use. My question is that my total length of the steel that folds out from the handle, Cutting Edge and Choil(jimping area) are over 3inchs. Now I carry this knife legally in my head because my cutting edge is 3 inchs, when the jimping area length is added in it would be a 3 1/2inch blade does that make my knife illegal to carry here...

Would an officer measure just the cutting edge or total length of steel(cutting edge and choil) that folds from the handle? I hope this is clear to understand, I want to obey the law yet if an officer is measuring my total length of steel with the non-sharpened jimping area added in is that legal for him to bring me to court? or is this something that I would need to argue about the correct Start position and Stop position of their measurement.

To my understanding of California law they measure blade length from tip of the blade to the handle. Other places may be different so I can't comment on it too much as I don't know Michigan laws.

 

[Clang!]

Has anyone got any legal knowledge of how a officer might measure your blade length.

Usual IANAL disclaimer

AKTI (American Knife and Tool Institute) has been trying to get a standard blade length measurement implemented as a legal definition

Where a statute, regulation or ordinance refers to knife blade length, the measurement shall be the straight line extending from the tip of the blade to the forward-most aspect of the hilt or handle.
(Adopted February 16, 2004 by AKTI Executive Committee; effective date January 1, 2005.)

http://www.akti.org/resources/akti-protocol-for-measuring-knife-blade-length

I think if you take the worst case scenario (AKTI, or maximum straight line length of steel protruding from the handle for angled hilts) then you should be safe.