-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Poll: Blade shape
- Thread starter bertl
- Start date
DeSotoSky
Gold Member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2011
- Messages
- 6,635
It's a drop point, not a clip.
A drop point is convex from the spine to the point.
A clip point is concave from the spine to the point.
There is no symmetry between the upper and lower edge so it does not have any spear characteristic.
This back of this blade is clearly CONVEX in shape as it curves to meet the point..... DROP POINT
A drop point is convex from the spine to the point.
A clip point is concave from the spine to the point.
There is no symmetry between the upper and lower edge so it does not have any spear characteristic.
This back of this blade is clearly CONVEX in shape as it curves to meet the point..... DROP POINT
Last edited:
David Martin
Moderator
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2008
- Messages
- 19,520
It's a modified clip point. DM
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2014
- Messages
- 655
drop point
I don't think so. My understanding of the difference of a drop point and a modified clip is that the drop point will have a more continuous curve along the spine (e.g. The 500 series) while a modified clip will retain the sudden "hump" on the spine that is similar to the hump on a clip point (e.g. The Bucklite Max folders)
IMO, the hump and swedge make that a modified clip.
IMO, the hump and swedge make that a modified clip.
bertl
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2011
- Messages
- 2,436
Thanks for the comments. I can see the arguments for calling it a modified clip and also for calling it a drop point. Sometimes we have an idealized vision when classifying things and then run across something that doesnt quite fit the vision. This might be the case here. I am not sure what to call the shape, which is why I asked the question.
The blade in question is a 1997 Model 303. So officially it is a clip point. To be a little more precise I think of the 303 pattern as a straight clip point, since the clip portion never has any curvature. Something else may add to the confusion; this blade has no swedge, which is something we generally associate with a clip point. About six years ago, 300Bucks had a post where he pointed out that for the years 1995, 1996, and 1997, the 303 clip had no swedge. The top was ground flat. My guess is that the final finishing was done by hand and that introduced some variation.
In the attached photo, the 1997 knife is in the middle. The bottom knife is 1995 and has a nice flat clip. The top knife is 1996 and seems to be sort of intermediate.
Thanks again for the comments.
Bert
The blade in question is a 1997 Model 303. So officially it is a clip point. To be a little more precise I think of the 303 pattern as a straight clip point, since the clip portion never has any curvature. Something else may add to the confusion; this blade has no swedge, which is something we generally associate with a clip point. About six years ago, 300Bucks had a post where he pointed out that for the years 1995, 1996, and 1997, the 303 clip had no swedge. The top was ground flat. My guess is that the final finishing was done by hand and that introduced some variation.
In the attached photo, the 1997 knife is in the middle. The bottom knife is 1995 and has a nice flat clip. The top knife is 1996 and seems to be sort of intermediate.
Thanks again for the comments.
Bert
In my work, I'm forced to deal with classification of what might be called artifacts of industrial design. I find it endlessly fascinating.
There are many ways to think of categories. I find one of the best is to find a small number of "best of breed" and then define the set as things like those good examples. "In The Pines" is an example of a bluegrass song.
One thing that is frustrating (and just have to roll with it) is that different manufacturers will use different terms for the same thing or the same term for different things. There ought to be a law!! 😁
Here is a copy of a Camillus catalog from the 60s. See page 4. You'll note that both the clip point and pen clip have straight clip sections.
http://www.collectors-of-camillus.us/Catalogs/1965-Camillus-Catalog-200s.pdf
If you search for old Schrade catalogs. You'll see their old drawing show a clip as having a concave clip.
I'm fairly certain that Buck used to call the Bucklite Max folders a "modified clip". Now they call them drop points and there's no way I would call the older Large Bucklite folders a drop point, as they were closer to a Turkish clip with the clip length being more than half the length of the blade.
When I think of drop point blades, I think the Bob Loveless drop point is the "In The Pines" exemplar. Graceful curves. No bump on the spine. I'm talking about the knife.
Hope something here is helpful
There are many ways to think of categories. I find one of the best is to find a small number of "best of breed" and then define the set as things like those good examples. "In The Pines" is an example of a bluegrass song.
One thing that is frustrating (and just have to roll with it) is that different manufacturers will use different terms for the same thing or the same term for different things. There ought to be a law!! 😁
Here is a copy of a Camillus catalog from the 60s. See page 4. You'll note that both the clip point and pen clip have straight clip sections.
http://www.collectors-of-camillus.us/Catalogs/1965-Camillus-Catalog-200s.pdf
If you search for old Schrade catalogs. You'll see their old drawing show a clip as having a concave clip.
I'm fairly certain that Buck used to call the Bucklite Max folders a "modified clip". Now they call them drop points and there's no way I would call the older Large Bucklite folders a drop point, as they were closer to a Turkish clip with the clip length being more than half the length of the blade.
When I think of drop point blades, I think the Bob Loveless drop point is the "In The Pines" exemplar. Graceful curves. No bump on the spine. I'm talking about the knife.
Hope something here is helpful
bertl
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2011
- Messages
- 2,436
pinnah,
Im going to make a couple of comments and that will be the end for me. You can have the last word if you wish.
First, you wrote, IMO, the hump and swedge make that a modified clip That must refer to the photo from MT_Pokt. The knife in the original post has no swedge. Does that change anything for you?
For the blade in question, the hump points towards a clip point, but the convex arc points to a drop point. Is one character more important than the other? Maybe we should say that the blade isnt a good example of either pattern but has characteristics of both. Do we need to force it into one category or another, or should we admit the world is full of variation?
I think your best of breed and my idealized vision are probably similar. As humans we categorize all sorts of things constantly and decisions are based on some vague standard. Sometimes thats useful and sometimes it causes problems.
Your best of breed usage is timely since the Westminster Show is almost ready to go. Judges know the breed standards forwards and backwards and have judged thousands of dogs, but, nevertheless, their decision is subjective. Its pretty safe to say that were two experienced people judging the same dogs each might pick a different individual as best.
That Loveless is a great drop point. If I were picking a favorite example, it might be one of the Al Mar ebony handled Custom Series by Gerber. Even when we are agreeing we can have slightly different ideas.
Finally, we all need to remember that we are only talking about knives. Surprisingly, there are a few things in the world that are more important, but at the moment I can't think of any.
Bert
Im going to make a couple of comments and that will be the end for me. You can have the last word if you wish.
First, you wrote, IMO, the hump and swedge make that a modified clip That must refer to the photo from MT_Pokt. The knife in the original post has no swedge. Does that change anything for you?
For the blade in question, the hump points towards a clip point, but the convex arc points to a drop point. Is one character more important than the other? Maybe we should say that the blade isnt a good example of either pattern but has characteristics of both. Do we need to force it into one category or another, or should we admit the world is full of variation?
I think your best of breed and my idealized vision are probably similar. As humans we categorize all sorts of things constantly and decisions are based on some vague standard. Sometimes thats useful and sometimes it causes problems.
Your best of breed usage is timely since the Westminster Show is almost ready to go. Judges know the breed standards forwards and backwards and have judged thousands of dogs, but, nevertheless, their decision is subjective. Its pretty safe to say that were two experienced people judging the same dogs each might pick a different individual as best.
That Loveless is a great drop point. If I were picking a favorite example, it might be one of the Al Mar ebony handled Custom Series by Gerber. Even when we are agreeing we can have slightly different ideas.
Finally, we all need to remember that we are only talking about knives. Surprisingly, there are a few things in the world that are more important, but at the moment I can't think of any.
Bert
Last edited: