poll: give customers what they want or stand for principle?

Should makers use materials the customer wants even if the maker has reservations?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
shootist16

shootist16

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I just read this interesting thread. It brings up an excellent question. Should custom makers use materials that a customer wants even if the maker has serious reservations? On the one hand I see giving the customer what he wants, but on the other I see that the makers name will be on the knife. What do you think?
 
I think it will depend upon the maker and in honesty it should.

If the maker has developed a style or is known for the materials they use, the customer should recognise that a maker may or may not want to go with the customer's idea. Each knife that is made has the makers reputation riding on it and the maker is responsible for that reputation. It is his or her call as to what should or what should not come out of their shop.

As a customer, I have great respect when a maker does not compromise on what they want to do and how they want to do it. It is up to me to study a little and make sure that what I am asking for does not conflict with the makers reputation. Most of the time, how I ask and react to the makers response makes all the difference in the world. When I have made a suggestion that does not jive with the makers desires, it has always been handled well by the maker with an explaination that made sense to me.

Sometimes we loose track of the fact that a lot of makers out there really have desires of their own as far as what they want to do. I have heard on more than several occasions folks state that they wish they had time to make knives that they want to make usually added with the comment that they are working in a rut and not growing at the pace they desire.

When a customer can meld their desires with those of the maker, odds are good that they will be more than satisfied. It has worked for me in every case without the slightest exception.

There is a very broad range of excellent makers out there. Some may work directly with a customers desire and specs. On the other end of the spectrum others do not take orders at all. They make knives that they want to make and go from there. I feel the makers decision should be respected. (When I think about it, I am not sure that I would be that happy with a knife from a maker that will compromise on something they do not feel comfortable with even if it is my desire so I appreciate being told when my ideas cross that line.)
 
Both yes and no.......I would NEVER use Pakkawood or Diamond wood......I would have a hard time using some second rate material found in the customers backyard...

I have always been a bit reserve over pearl....but a customer requested if I would use it ...and sure..! I get to try something new. I allways let the customer know if I have no experiece or little experiece in a material if I feel it might take me more time or more tries..
 
Jens you bring up a great point. Every once in a while, especially when it is with someone I know I am not stepping out of bounds with, I have enjoyed working with a maker on something that has pushed their abilities and experience to a higher level. From the feed back during the time and after the knife has been made, so have the folks that have made them. It is fun to share that type of excitment with the maker. Being a small factor in that growth can be pretty cool.
 
I just put my no vote in for the resons Gus stated in his first post. Imagine for a minute a Price dagger or a Herman folder with Dymondwood handles! :barf: I think it is personally up to each maker.
 
I just voted no, and The nos seem to be winning, but I wonder if you moved this to the general forum if the poll wouldn't swing the other way? IT seems most people on this forum are makers, or at least experienced knife collecters, I bet some of the less knife educated people would vote differently.
Kyle
 
Keep in mind, I buy users, and am not a collector, or interested in becoming one, so resale value is not a priority for me, personally.

I just voted yes...BUT I think this guy should be shown his options first. Maybe he'll change his mind.
I ordered a small custom fixed blade awhile back. Got to looking at another knife with green micarta scales, and asked the maker in email "what about green micarta?". His reply "green micarta?......AUGGHH!". Point taken:) After thinking about it, I realized I wouldn't have been happy with it, and was left wondering "what was I thinking??" (maybe this guy would be the same way). I said "never mind". I am glad he made it clear he didn't like it (alot different than refusing to use it) rather than just saying "sure, I can do that:rolleyes:", and letting me make a bad decision without comment.

At the same time, though:
If I hire a contractor (it's the same thing) to paint my house, I'm choosing the color-he doesn't have to like it, it's not his house. If he's says "xxxx color might turn out better", or "I don't like that color, because.....", I'm going to give it some more thought, though-same as a maker, he deals with this stuff on a daily basis, and probably has a much clearer picture of what the finished product is going to look like than I do.
But, when it's all said and done, I'm going to get what I want, or take my business elsewhere.

The whole idea behind ordering a custom, IMO, is getting it done "your way".
I couldn't care less if anyone else likes my knife, truck, house, clothes, whatever, as long as I'm happy. Noone else is paying for them.

That's kind of a tough question.
Perhaps there should have been a MAYBE option to vote for:)
 
Gus brought up some excellent points, and I tend to agree with all of them.<p>When I want to buy a custom piece, and I go to a maker to order one, I go to him for a reason... I like his work! I also expect the maker to use the type of Damascus, Scale Material, Blade Finish, and Bolster Type, that I want. I don't think that is unreasonable at all. As long as I don't change his style of making knives. I also always ask the maker what he thinks about certain decisions that I have made, because I trust judgement. Lets face it, thats why I went to him in the first place. <p>I think the maker will always try to make the best knife they can, because if they don't, I doubt that they will be getting too many orders. So I say, you need to trust the maker to make the right choices, but it is ultimately up to the buyer what he wants on it.:)
 
Even if I am not a maker, I would have to say no. When I talk to a maker to order a knife I may request certain materials but if he favors something else, I go along with him. He is the expert and that is why I went to him to begin with. Also, I can only expect him to stand behind his work when he chose the materials. If I ask for mammoth ivory on a knife that will be used as a heavy chopper, I can't expect a maker to replace it when it cracks. But I would also expect him to warn me if he knows what I am going to use it for. A good maker should be willing to loose a sale to avoid the trouble.
 
For the record, I voted no also. My vote was guided by this being a makers decision rather than a customers. (i.e. Should I always make what the customer asks for? (even though I may not want to do it.)

There are no hard and fast rules out there for makers or collectors. There are some basics that should be looked for and for collectors Darrel sums it up on a page of the TKCL website here. Les has a good booklett that is just out and there are other sources of information. B.R. Hughes comes to mind, I have never read any of his books that did not educate me and most of his articles which show up in all the periodicals have the same effect. I can say the same about Dexter. (So when are you going to write a book ya class bastid?)

In adding to some of Darrel's words. I may be a little odd, since I do "look" at the maker first and then the knives. (Don't look too hard :D alot of these male makers are pretty darn ugly, maybe that is why I fit in so well :)). Seriously I stick to that rule no matter what type of knife I am interested in. It works for me, but it does not work for everyone.

Kile I think you may be right, but "yes" can easily be the right decision for some makers and collectors. It does not mean the knife is any better or worse. My no vote just means that I do not think it is good for a maker to get into something they do not want to do and that in some cases it may not be best for the customer to insist that something be done when the maker is not comfortable doing it. (Again I am not talking about pushing ability here.)
 
First time I've tried to add a picture. Hope it works.

I did this one several ('87) years ago. It had Winewood Pakkawood and the customer was real happy with it.

I'm not sure I would do it again. Ivory would look great with it.
 

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I think that a maker should not use materials that will lower the quality of his work. I have had a few knives made and have had ideas about whether a material that I wanted would be something recommended. In some cases I have been told it would be good and that the maker would be glad to use that material. In other cases I have been told that, for one reason or another, the materials would not do as good a job as others. This advice has been greatly appreciated.

All makers want their knives to be as well made as they can be. Using materials that may lower that quality could be bad indeed. As has been stated, the maker is putting his name on the knife.

Using materials that you do not normally use is fine as long as you are confident that you can work with them. Using materials you think are substandard should not be done.

IMO what always works best is when the buyer and the maker work together. I think that is the way that you will end up with the best final outcome. A lot of the enjoyment that I get out of custom knives comes from the interaction with the maker.
 
Dennis
Thanks for starting this spinoff from my earlier post.
I have read the replies and voted no because of maker integrity and future representation of the product which in itself is a little peice of me.
I sill use pakkawood in lower end products and for its purpose its a good product.
But it's MY artistic integraty(what little I have) that makes me feel a little queasy about matching items like pakkawood and damascus. It just doesn't FEEL right.
No offence to you Kit (thanks for the e-mail) but I do agree with you and I don't know if I would be capable to bring myself to use Pakkawood on such a nice peice. Ebony, blood wood, purpleheart.....there are so many more choices that are more "servicable" than ivory and way nicer than pakkawood.
I have and will continue to guild my uneducated customers in there choices to allow them to get the most bang for there buck.
But I beleive that pakkawood and also micarta offer NO bang for the buck even though I do use them dailly. These products are just plain old tuff and servicable and thats why I still use them.
 
Kit, back in 87 Pakawood was some popular stuff! :D I still have an odd piece or 2 around, I use it to drill into on the drill press.

Tim, WHEW I actually was kinda worried about that! ha ha ha
 
Originally posted by R Dockrell
Dennis
Thanks for starting this spinoff from my earlier post.
Click to expand...

I hope you don't mind. I thought it was a very interesting topic and I wanted to test the polling option :D
 
I think maybe one important piece of human nature didn't get mentioned here. I thought of it because of a thread or two I saw recently about a knife being made with an inappropriate steel. However strongly that customer says I will get what I want, if those who say it won't work are correct, then when that blade fails big time, the most humans would not just mumble quietly to themselves that they should have listened. Nope. They're gonna run around and start badmouthing that maker and saying what terrible knives he makes, and don't buy from him etc. At least I believe most folks would do that. I think a maker has not only the right, but the need to protect his reputation.
 
I think a maker sould give the customer what they want within reason.

As for pakawood well I get off the boat at this point.
Good quality materials that add value are what I try to recommend to collectors.
 
I think the answer to this question needs to depend on an individual case. If a person wants a relatively inexpensive using knife, I don't see that the laminated woods are a terrible product that will necessarily disolve under use, or splinter. If this is the intended purpose of the knife, I can't see why a maker should refuse any request that won't functionally hinder the knife. The low end buyer needs the joy of making custom choices, too, and shouldn't be afraid to experiment. A poor artistic choice on a $100 knife is just a learning experience, and part of the hobby's fun. Unless of course the poor dumb bastid really turns out to like the knife... :barf:

On an artistic level, some knives just shouldn't be made with some materials. While I enjoy testing a maker's limits, I also appreciate their talent and experience preventing me from making a poor decision. If a maker feels strongly about a poor artistic choice, I will gladly defer.

So on some knives, I'd do anything cosmetic, as long as the functional aspect was retained. On others, I'd follow my heart.
 
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