Poll: If we were to commission a sub-forum custom axe design, what type should it be?

What type of axe would you prefer to have designed?

  • Full-size Single-bit

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Full-size Double-bit

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Boy's Axe

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Cruiser

    Votes: 1 100.0%

  • Hatchet

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    1
daizee said:
Sweet.
I work in deep sea oceanography, and we build one-off crazy machined crap all the time. An axe head would be a fun project for one of those shops. Though they usually work in titanium and delrin. ;)
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I am doing some hand drawings of my own, and fumbling around with a cad program. It is not too hard so far. Interesting job you have.
 
daizee said:
Sweet.
I work in deep sea oceanography, and we build one-off crazy machined crap all the time. An axe head would be a fun project for one of those shops. Though they usually work in titanium and delrin. ;)
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Interesting that they work titanium. That stuff is tough to work. Our local Boeing Company does almost all their titanium work in house cause most shops don't want to touch it. There's one large building at the Auburn Plant that does almost nothing but titanium work. Cool place. There's a million things that will kill you in a Boeing plant. Gotta be on your toes at all times.
 
Woodcraft said:
Why would you use Council? Why would you use a custom maker? There are umpteen milling CNC shops that will take small and custom orders. They do not make axes and that is the point. You will not be anywhere near 200 an ax to turn out ten or so axes from blocks of 5160. And they will be made to extremely tight tolerances. Think about it.
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OK I'll think about it, sure. But, probably not too hard until you show up with a complete, heat treated axe head, and not a wedge of 5160 with a really expensive hole in it. I hear you 100%, I'm just looking around for some excitement and having a really hard time finding any.
 
cityofthesouth said:
OK I'll think about it, sure. But, probably not too hard until you show up with a complete, heat treated axe head, and not a wedge of 5160 with a really expensive hole in it. I hear you 100%, I'm just looking around for some excitement and having a really hard time finding any.
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I know one firm who's doing axe heads (most of them battlefield axes) forged from scratch to heat treatment and is not member in this community. If you look around for excitement, try to look above what you know.
 
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cityofthesouth said:
OK I'll think about it, sure. But, probably not too hard until you show up with a complete, heat treated axe head, and not a wedge of 5160 with a really expensive hole in it. I hear you 100%, I'm just looking around for some excitement and having a really hard time finding any.
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You are going to start thinking AFTER the group project is done?
Brute forge uses machining. To what extent I am unsure.
 
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Park Swan said:
Honestly it should not be that difficult of a machining project if you approach it from the right direction. Especially for hatchets, 4140 can be purchased in 1" thick by 4" or 6" bars. Positioned on edge, a waterjet could easily cut a perfect eye shape and the initial cheek bevels for a number of head from one long bar with almost no waste. Then it's a matter of profiling and removing some cheek material.
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I've looked in to this. You'd be surprised how expensive it would be just to cut out the shape of the eye when you're talking 4"+ tool steel. Also, small quantity buys of axe steel i.e. 5160 are virtually impossible in the dimensions you'd need. Buying drops off eBay is the only feasible way I've found so far. I've got a 4.5x1.5x18" block of A2 in my basement just waiting to become some axes, but I still haven't figured out how I want to do it.


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Bridger said:
I've looked in to this. You'd be surprised how expensive it would be just to cut out the shape of the eye when you're talking 4"+ tool steel. Also, small quantity buys of axe steel i.e. 5160 are virtually impossible in the dimensions you'd need. Buying drops off eBay is the only feasible way I've found so far. I've got a 4.5x1.5x18" block of A2 in my basement just waiting to become some axes, but I still haven't figured out how I want to do it.


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How expensive? You are correct, 5160 is not cheap in small quantities. We do not have to use 5160.
 
Bridger said:
I've looked in to this. You'd be surprised how expensive it would be just to cut out the shape of the eye when you're talking 4"+ tool steel. Also, small quantity buys of axe steel i.e. 5160 are virtually impossible in the dimensions you'd need. Buying drops off eBay is the only feasible way I've found so far. I've got a 4.5x1.5x18" block of A2 in my basement just waiting to become some axes, but I still haven't figured out how I want to do it.


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Why cutting the eye instead forging the head?
 
Derzelas said:
Why cutting the eye instead forging the head?
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Probably because I told them I called a couple of milling/CNC shops yesterday and they said shoot me a drawing and measurements and metal type, and they would give an estimate. Seems to me no one wants to contribute to design, sorry, a few want to contribute to the creative process, and a bunch want to kneecap the project.
It all stems from trying to figure out how to get made what has not been designed yet. And claims of "$200" or more an axe head from a Smith.
So I called a couple of shops they seemed like they would have no issue producing what I was asking about.
 
Woodcraft said:
Probably because I told them I called a couple of milling/CNC shops yesterday and they said shoot me a drawing and measurements and metal type, and they would give an estimate. Seems to me no one wants to contribute to design, sorry, a few want to contribute to the creative process, and a bunch want to kneecap the project.
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Ok, got it. Grab-a-word-and-stomp-on-it kind of dialog.
PS Based on the things I know, $175 - $200 for a forged head should be about right (5160 steel).
 
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Woodcraft said:
To be clear my intent was to have it done totally by machine.
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To be clear, when I chose to design something and send to someone, I chose carefully. Going "one way" of doing things when working with metal you cut yourself out from possibilities. At least this is my experience.
 
If it were cost effective to machine eyed axe heads I think we'd see a lot more of them on the market sitting between all the ones made by knife companies being cut from flat stock on the one end and the drop forged models on the other. But I'd be pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong on that. I'm pretty sure the most cost-effective method of making an eyed axe in low volume would be modern investment casting but you'd still need to hit a certain volume mark to reduce the per-unit cost of the initial tooling expense. Osborne racing axes are machined from billets, as a reference. Snedden's Fencing Products, also in Australia, produces cast axes and hatchets ranging from $260 to $360 AUD (about $198-275 USD) if you don't include their $400 AUD broad axe.
 
Derzelas said:
To be clear, when I chose to design something and send to someone, I chose carefully. Going "one way" of doing things when working with metal you cut yourself out from possibilities. At least this is my experience.
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Yeah, I agree. My point was to actually get a price. There is a whole bunch of speculation and claims of price, and very little to back those claims up.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
If it were cost effective to machine eyed axe heads I think we'd see a lot more of them on the market sitting between all the ones made by knife companies being cut from flat stock on the one end and the drop forged models on the other. But I'd be pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong on that. I'm pretty sure the most cost-effective method of making an eyed axe in low volume would be modern investment casting but you'd still need to hit a certain volume mark to reduce the per-unit cost of the initial tooling expense. Osborne racing axes are machined from billets, as a reference. Snedden's Fencing Products, also in Australia, produces cast axes and hatchets ranging from $260 to $360 AUD (about $198-275 USD) if you don't include their $400 AUD broad axe.
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It is funny you mention Osborne axes being machined from billets. They use a top quality steel. Plus his time and effort on the bit grinds.(Handles, finishing quality, knowledge and know-how so you get a good product) Plus they are what 6lbs? So you would think what? 500us? 600us? 700us? Nope
Nope nope.
$419 us. Plus shipping. For a racing axe. I think you just made a great argument showing that machining from billets financially may be the way to go.
 
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Woodcraft said:
Yeah, I agree. My point was to actually get a price. There is a whole bunch of speculation and claims of price, and very little to back those claims up.
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Without a design in hand, is hard to get out and get a quote.
But are some sites that can give you an idea. This is one of them:
http://www.torontoblacksmith.com/new-products/
http://www.torontoblacksmith.com/axes/
If it is against the rules, please delete it. I am not related to them, I just like what he is doing.
 
As I said earlier, why go to a Smith or a company like Council for 10 axe heads? It does not make sense. Nor does having molds made.
 
If it was easy to make it at home with a file everything would have been great. But the reality is not this. I would try to get a quote for each of the processes (when I have the design): forged, milled, cast. And decide after, when I know the prices and the time frame.
 
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