Poltova CBN or Venev?

huntyukon said:
Would you happen to if it’s true that cbn is better with steels like the Aogami blue steels? Better than Diamond, that is?
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Aogami Super finishes beautifully on alumina, like the Naniwa Super Stone #5000. It is slow to cut compared to basic carbon or soft stainless so shaping is faster with soft silicon carbide. Diamond film works fast too and avoids scratchy mud from coarse stones. Resin bonded diamond should be similar to diamond film—I haven't used it. I avoid plated diamond as the steel is brittle (low toughness) and will chip with the high point pressure. I have not used metal bonded diamond but I would be careful with it too and use a light hand.
 
chalby said:
Depends. Any of the Japanese waterstones like Naniwa, Shapton, Suehiro, King etc. have their pro's and con's. One of the con's is that they will struggle with the "super steels" you mentioned. Likewise with the more traditional Norton India's and the like.

If you want one set of stones that can handle everything, you can look at more expensive options such as resin bonded diamond stones for slower cutting but better refinement(this is what I prefer for diamond/CBN class), metallic bonded stones as you have been discussing for better cutting speed but somewhat closer to the finish you will get from diamond plates. Diamond plates are the cheapest option but tend to leave a very coarse finish even in the finer grits and wear out much quicker. The most expensive option is vitrified which is perhaps the best allround option but obviously is hard to justify money wise. Basically you will be better off using diamond or CBN if you are sharpening steels like Maxamet or S90V. Magnacut you could probably get away with using regular stones.

If you just want a good set of stones for Aogami steels, then any of the Naniwa Pro/Chosera/Gouken Arata, Shapton Pro or Shapton Glass are very good splash and go stones. King make some splash and go like the King Neo and also soakers like King Deluxe for a cheaper option. Suehiro Cerax is another soaking stone that many people love. The list goes on and on.
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Thank you for the extensive and very helpful explanation to my question. I very much appreciate that.
My main reason for getting CBN in grits up to about 20um was to get fairly quick metal removal yet with a better scratch pattern than diamond. Mainly for my “super steels” though. For those I was gonna go first metal bond, then combined resin/metal bond up to 20um and finish with my 1700 and 4K diamond matrix. Then I read on PDT,s Website that CBN supposedly works better with those blue steels I mentioned. Maybe they meant when compared to diamond with comparable bonds. Which got me thinking that maybe I could get away with only the CBN and diamond matrix set up. At least at first.

Anyways, I will go your recommendation and get one of the above mentioned Japanese stones.
Compared to CBN they are relatively inexpensive. I mean, sure, a fair chunk of money getting both set ups at once, but I also believe in buy once cry once.

Another reason why I’ll be getting both sets in the same order is due to where I live. Some businesses won’t ship to Whitehorse, which is still 540km away from where I live. Next month I’ll be in Europe, visiting family. Where I’ll have cheap or free shipping and better selection.

Anyways, enough with the chit chat. Thanks again for the tips. It helped quite a bit
 
huntyukon said:
Thank you for the extensive and very helpful explanation to my question. I very much appreciate that.
My main reason for getting CBN in grits up to about 20um was to get fairly quick metal removal yet with a better scratch pattern than diamond. Mainly for my “super steels” though. For those I was gonna go first metal bond, then combined resin/metal bond up to 20um and finish with my 1700 and 4K diamond matrix. Then I read on PDT,s Website that CBN supposedly works better with those blue steels I mentioned. Maybe they meant when compared to diamond with comparable bonds. Which got me thinking that maybe I could get away with only the CBN and diamond matrix set up. At least at first.

Anyways, I will go your recommendation and get one of the above mentioned Japanese stones.
Compared to CBN they are relatively inexpensive. I mean, sure, a fair chunk of money getting both set ups at once, but I also believe in buy once cry once.

Another reason why I’ll be getting both sets in the same order is due to where I live. Some businesses won’t ship to Whitehorse, which is still 540km away from where I live. Next month I’ll be in Europe, visiting family. Where I’ll have cheap or free shipping and better selection.

Anyways, enough with the chit chat. Thanks again for the tips. It helped quite a bit
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Just a couple other things to think about.

I don't know if cost is a huge factor for you, but stones in the sub 20um may not see a lot of use either. Unless you are sharpening other peoples knives or you have lots and lots of knives you will generally only use these stones for bevel setting or repairs. Which means once you have re-profiled your knife/knives to the geometry you are after, you won't need to often start under about 10um for resharpening those knives once they start going a bit dull. In some respects spending a lot of money on coarse stones may not make much sense if you don't use them often. Having said that, I get wanting to do the coarse work done as quickly as possible though.

Another point is if you have steels like Maxamet or S90V as EDC folders for example, they may do better with a coarser edge anyway, so if you wanted to go that way you could just get 1 or 2 diamond/CBN stones in grits in the 20-50um range just for those knives and get a more comprehensive set of cheaper AlOx stones for your more basic steels for kitchen knives. For example I have a Venev resin bonded diamond stone with F240(~50um) on one side and F400(~25um) on the other which is what I use 90% of the time for my higher carbide folders. Just an idea anyway.

All the different stones have different pro's and con's. Good luck finding the setup for what you want to do.
 
chalby said:
Just a couple other things to think about.

I don't know if cost is a huge factor for you, but stones in the sub 20um may not see a lot of use either. Unless you are sharpening other peoples knives or you have lots and lots of knives you will generally only use these stones for bevel setting or repairs. Which means once you have re-profiled your knife/knives to the geometry you are after, you won't need to often start under about 10um for resharpening those knives once they start going a bit dull. In some respects spending a lot of money on coarse stones may not make much sense if you don't use them often. Having said that, I get wanting to do the coarse work done as quickly as possible though.

Another point is if you have steels like Maxamet or S90V as EDC folders for example, they may do better with a coarser edge anyway, so if you wanted to go that way you could just get 1 or 2 diamond/CBN stones in grits in the 20-50um range just for those knives and get a more comprehensive set of cheaper AlOx stones for your more basic steels for kitchen knives. For example I have a Venev resin bonded diamond stone with F240(~50um) on one side and F400(~25um) on the other which is what I use 90% of the time for my higher carbide folders. Just an idea anyway.

All the different stones have different pro's and con's. Good luck finding the setup for what you want to do.
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How do you think the boride T2 or Ruby would work for Aogami steels? My Aogami blades go up to 65-65HRC.
 
huntyukon said:
How do you think the boride T2 or Ruby would work for Aogami steels? My Aogami blades go up to 65-65HRC.
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I don't know much about either TBH.

I wouldn't be worried about any good quality stone being able to handle Aogami steels with ease even at 65 HRC. There aren't enough carbides to present any difficulty. It would be a different story with say HAP40 at 65 HRC, then you might want something like the metallic or resin bonded super abrasive. Japanese knife enthusiasts have been sharpening the basic carbon steels like Aogami Super with Shapton and Naniwa aluminum oxide stones for many years.

That's not to say you will be wasting your money on the Poltava or Venev. They will handle anything. It's just that theoretically if the only steel you were sharpening was Aogami Super then arguably it would be overkill or an unnecessary cost. Cost isn't always the main priority though.
 
chalby said:
That's not to say you will be wasting your money on the Poltava or Venev. They will handle anything. It's just that theoretically if the only steel you were sharpening was Aogami Super then arguably it would be overkill or an unnecessary cost. Cost isn't always the main priority though.
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Thanks again for all the info. I will be getting some more CBN/diamond stones regardless. For my “super steel”. I think I will go with the Shapton or naniwa you mentioned for my kitchen knives though. I agree, it isn’t always about cost. Thanks again. This was very helpful.
 
huntyukon said:
How do you think the boride T2 or Ruby would work for Aogami steels? My Aogami blades go up to 65-65HRC.
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Some thoughts for you. Of what I have I would use CS-M F220, F320 and F600 for efficient shaping. After that it's more about feel and sharpness than speed of action, and alumina works fine. CS-M will crumble if you lean into them, but I would rather use a light touch and let the stone do the work.
 
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