Possibly the ultimate knock off?

I wonder how far different a design has to be before people will not immediately call it a knock off. Afterall, there are quite a few standard ergonomic features that will be similar in stuff meant to do the exact same task. Something to do with evolution?

That said, this guy's knives are very similar to those of other makers. I'm not particularly knowledgeable about knives, but I think I see Dozier and Greco looking knives apart from the one for Emmerson.

Don't think he can be sued though. Not unless he started using Spydie trademark holes or Emmerson's wave.
 
Ok ok I gotta speak up now
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I do have one of Mr. Wilson's 1911's and I think it is an excellent piece. Accurate, reliable and quite a looker too. As to not having a smith in his shop being able to build a complete 1911 from the ground up....... I don't care, just as long as these guys can all get together and build me one that runs like a tank
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.

Never gave the Wilson's knives a look, until now. But the knives in question do look a lot like our favored maker's. A lot of people will be trying to ride the coat tails I'm sure. Have you seen Farids custom peices?
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I don't see a problem with either ATS-34 or it's twin 154-CM. I've also seen beautiful and unbelievably strong D2. Friend of mine in Maryland is a BIG Brend fan and has waaaaay too many of his pieces. He uses these knives and he uses them hard and I look at the edges of these things and can't believe it. Now I'm not saying Ryan Wilson's D2 is that good, or even close, because I don't have any personal experience or know anyone I'm close to that has any of his D2 knives. But, I gotta jump in the same boat as Arkham and Don R. on this one and say it's all in the heat treat.

Wonder what Mr. Emerson thinks about this? Do you think he looks at it as, "Immitation being a form of flattery" or "Hmmmmmm that looks too familiar."

On the same note. Look at all the 1911 manufacturers out there. You've got Kimber, Wilson Combat, STI, SVI, Norinco, Para-Ordinance, Colt, Valtro, Firestorm, Sprinfield Armory etc., etc,. etc........ All of them have the same basic lines and functions. Have you seen any legal disputes happening because of it? The only design battle I've seen go to court was the famous Glock vs. S&W (Sigma) dispute. Any thoughts?

Back to the knives. I don't think anyone out there copying Mr. Emersons designs will have a fraction of the following he has. That isn't the point, I know, but Mr. Emerson will always be top dog if he keeps doing what he's doing. The others will fall by the wayside if all they can do is copy.

My .02 cents if it's even worth that much. I don't even know if I made sense. Dang it's getting late think it's beddie bye time
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Ross T.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Quote Ross:
Look at all the 1911 manufacturers out there. You've got Kimber, Wilson Combat, STI, SVI, Norinco, Para-Ordinance, Colt, Valtro, Firestorm, Sprinfield Armory etc., etc,. etc........ All of them have the same basic lines and functions. Have you seen any legal disputes happening because of it?</font>
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LOL Lets ask John Moses Browning what he thinks.
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On the flip side, have you looked at the PreTacticals that Ernie made? Am I the only one that sees the development of the "Emerson Style"? Ernie has made it very clear that he had a strong Michael Walker influence when he got started. Looking at his early designs (Link Link Link) and you'll see that influence.

I wonder if these budding makers would so freely acknowledge Ernie as being one of their early influences in the years to come.
 
Hmmm. okay I did come across a little strong with the "Name that Knockoff" Contest. (still think it's funny though.)
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As to the 1911 design being oft copied, remember, Browning sold his patents and copyrights to Colt about 100 years ago. the patents expired about 75 years ago, the design is now Public Domain. The same thing will happen to any inventor or designer in due time.


Ross,
I didn't say they're not good pistols, but the point about no one in the shop being able to build one from start to finish was meant to illustrate the fact that what he refers to as "custom built" is in reality, Piecework built.

Piecework is the method of manufacturing that Henry Ford made obsolete when he invented the assembly line.

I don't say this to disparage the guns, only Wilson's less than perfectly honest marketing practices. (Notice the ads don't say "Hand built by a bunch of guys.")

There is even argument that this makes for a BETTER gun, because a fellow who does 20 trigger jobs a day, will eventually get VERY good at doing trigger jobs. The fellow who fits 10 barrels a day will eventually get very good at fitting barrels.

My only problem is, what happens when the Barrel Fitter calls in sick one day? Answer? The Trigger Job Guy is asked to step in and do the barrel fitting and you get a gun with something less that "great" barrel fitting.

I'll be perfectly honest, I don't care for Wilson guns, and I've made a nice pile of change fixing things that were wrong with Wilson guns. They're getting better, but that's because they're moving away from hand built to true assembly line. But then, if it's going to be an assembly line gun, why spend all that money?

Either way,
YMMV
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------------------
Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
Usual Suspect
MOLON LABE!
 
actually...I own a master knife....its a copy of a microtech socom......actually very nice knife for a knockoff! Ive been using it in my shop for several months now.......not that its right or anything.

david
 
Since we're admitting "dirty little secrets", my letter opener is an 'Master' Auto copy of the Boker "Top Lock". I paid $5 I think and it's held up to daily use for years. But it would never leave the house.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ken Cook:
Hmmm. okay I did come across a little strong with the "Name that Knockoff" Contest. (still think it's funny though.)
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As to the 1911 design being oft copied, remember, Browning sold his patents and copyrights to Colt about 100 years ago. the patents expired about 75 years ago, the design is now Public Domain. The same thing will happen to any inventor or designer in due time.

Yeah that's right! I forgot about that. I knew something was gnawing at the back of my brain when I was typing that out and that was it. Thanks for the reminder.


Ross,
I didn't say they're not good pistols, but the point about no one in the shop being able to build one from start to finish was meant to illustrate the fact that what he refers to as "custom built" is in reality, Piecework built.

Piecework is the method of manufacturing that Henry Ford made obsolete when he invented the assembly line.

I don't say this to disparage the guns, only Wilson's less than perfectly honest marketing practices. (Notice the ads don't say "Hand built by a bunch of guys.")

There is even argument that this makes for a BETTER gun, because a fellow who does 20 trigger jobs a day, will eventually get VERY good at doing trigger jobs. The fellow who fits 10 barrels a day will eventually get very good at fitting barrels.

My only problem is, what happens when the Barrel Fitter calls in sick one day? Answer? The Trigger Job Guy is asked to step in and do the barrel fitting and you get a gun with something less that "great" barrel fitting.

Funny you should say that Ken that's the exact reason I went with Wilson. In the last year I got ripped off big time by 2 one man shops for a ton of money. Well one was reasons that were a lot more complicated than being ripped off but I was lied to by this peson non the less.

Using your example of the barrel fitter being sick one day, what happens if the one man shop gets sick or burned out? No pistol. After being burnt twice and lied to twice I searched and saw that their customer service was second to none in that field and had close friends and acqaintences who are very anal about their guns say that if they were to go with a semi-custom outfit they would go with Wilsons.

I knew if one guy would get fired, feel sick, not want to do the job my pistol will still get done and be backed up by their service.

The one dishonorable smith that fled the state was from your neck of the woods. He is now hiding out in New Mexico somewhere. I felt really betrayed and was real wary about dealing with one man shops.

I know there are a ton of good ones out there and I am sure you are one of them especially having good taste in knives
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It's just like a big slap in my face when I know I've been had like that.

There are pro's and con's to both one man and multi man shops. What I like about the one man shops when they aren't out to pull one over on you, is that they know their name is going on the product and the attention to detail is very evident. You get exactly what you want and don't have to be confined to a package.

The cons are what I listed above. When one guy gets sick the whole shop is down and if that one man is dishonorable you're screwed. I found out the hard way.


I'll be perfectly honest, I don't care for Wilson guns, and I've made a nice pile of change fixing things that were wrong with Wilson guns. They're getting better, but that's because they're moving away from hand built to true assembly line. But then, if it's going to be an assembly line gun, why spend all that money?

Either way,
YMMV
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I just wanted to chime in, which I will always do, if I think someone is getting a little harsh on a person or company I've dealt with and had great service from. I just wanted to give my side of the story.

I'm not saying your side is wrong it's just I had different experience and it doesn't make yours or my experience any less true.

You don't need to walk on eggshells around me and if you don't like the company that's fine and you have a ligitmate reason for not liking them. Just wanted to give my side of the story that's all.

Peace Ken,
Ross T.
 
Good points Ross, we cool!
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If you don't mind telling me though, I'd like to hear the story about the "smith" from my neck of the woods?
Email's fine if you don't want to put it here.


------------------
Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
Usual Suspect
MOLON LABE!
 

I ashamed to admit I have never had a copy of any blade
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I did not have enuff money for a $5 knife....all i used was a sharpened stick and my teeth
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"I used to run million-dollar equipment. Now I can't even get a job parking CARS!!"

... sorry. All this Rambo talk got me reminiscing (sp?)
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Ken - I'll BET the base theater went nuts when he said that. LOL!!
 
Quote:

"I didn't say they're not good pistols, but the point about no one in the shop being able to build one from start to finish was meant to illustrate the fact that what he refers to as "custom built" is in reality, Piecework built.

Piecework is the method of manufacturing that Henry Ford made obsolete when he invented the assembly line.

I don't say this to disparage the guns, only Wilson's less than perfectly honest marketing practices. (Notice the ads don't say "Hand built by a bunch of guys.")

There is even argument that this makes for a BETTER gun, because a fellow who does 20 trigger jobs a day, will eventually get VERY good at doing trigger jobs. The fellow who fits 10 barrels a day will eventually get very good at fitting barrels.

My only problem is, what happens when the Barrel Fitter calls in sick one day? Answer? The Trigger Job Guy is asked to step in and do the barrel fitting and you get a gun with something less that "great" barrel fitting."

Solution:

Say it with me: B-E-R-E-T-T-A!
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Here's another knock-off from Les Robertson and Roy Helton.

http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/helttac.htm


------------------
Brigadier
Beretta 92 FS nut and Aspiring Usual Suspect
"And for this cause God shall send them stong delusion,that they should believe a lie;" 2 Thessalonians 2:11
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove[expose] them." Ephesians 5:11

[This message has been edited by Brigadier (edited 05-29-2001).]
 
Brigadier,
That one has tempted me more than a couple of times.

------------------
Is it SHARP? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 
trivia - if anyones interested - went to school w/bobby sargent, the guy who did some of the stunts in First Blood like the motercycle scene, and when he jumps off the cliff - he used to be on the opening scenes for ABC wide world of sports cliff jumping in mexico - he's a nut, and havent seen him in yrs

FB was an ok movie i guess, hardly realistic though, all the movies of that time awakened america to the plight of the viet nam vet, whatever that may be - but it did make people remeber and think of the sacrifices made, so its not all bad imho

wilson also makes a fixed blade which is a ringer for a polkawski kasper companion, as made by CRKT, and it costs $250 - also a bud had a 1911 .45 w/all the goodies, except no compensater - it was stolen, and wanted to get a wilson custom to replace it(it was insured) he called wilson to request a catalog, and the girl quoted a ridiculous price for it, like 12 bucks, so instead my bud called clark custom guns, and jim was more than happy to send a free catalog, and 2 wks later, a street carry 1911, about a 2K sale - wilson recently acquired scattergun tech too, and they have done some work for me on my 870 - hope they dont go sky high like the rest of the wilson stuff - they do make some cool stuff though, ya gotta admit, but not so great in the knife dept, imho


sifu

[This message has been edited by SIFU1A (edited 06-01-2001).]
 
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