Post your 165's!

Great sheath!no doubt elephant hide. I have memos from schrade confirming this. Been trying to find one with no luck so far. Great to have a pic to look at. Thanx for posting it
 
I would certainly be interested in seeing these memos. Can you post scans or email them to me so that I can post them? These knives come up on ebay at a rate of two or three a year.
 
Cal, congrats on the find! Dave Swinden confirmed that to me a while back as well. One of the Baers had gotten a shipment of them and expected big sales, but they just didn't catch on.

I'd be interested in seeing those memos too James. Always cool to see the old "Inner Office Memos" .

And a hearty welcome to you by the way!!!

Eric
 
Just a little update on the above post; I spoke with Dave today and it seems that both Albert and Henry took a trip to Africa about the time that there was a rather large overpopulation of elephants eating everything in sight, around 1970 or 71 ( maybe Norm Thompson accompanied them! :D ). There was a cull of about 20,000 or so animals with a resulting mountain of hides. The Baers purchased a number of them and had them tanned and possibly even cut, Dave recalls that they wanted to help the folks out over there economically so had some of the work done over there. Don't know how much they got but I do know that they used it on the 165's and the 171's.

Eric
 
Very cool info and even more so because it came from someone who was there and remembers it! I was surprised to see this latest sheath example is such a light color. Mine is much darker. Possibly because it has been oiled by a previous owner? Or possibly because of natural hide color variations? I do hope to eventually see the memos regarding this Sears SFO and it's sheath. A Sears item number, quantity numbers, projected ship dates will really help fill in some gaps in the story of this pattern. Thanks for your efforts Eric!
 
I can post some pics of memos I have as soon as I figure out how to do so. I was trying to find out how many 153 scharade waldens were actually produced. It feels like I have found out everything but. I'm beginning to think the answer is not to be found. I sat and talked to Dave at canal street and he could not recall how many would have been made with the schrade walden stamp. I have seen codger's end of year report info and confirmed the 153 with a #79 designation. This appears to be a referance pertaining to the sears orders. They projected 3000 153 to be made for sears
In the upcoming 1973 production run. I dont have the papers with me they are at work but I do remember seeing some ship dates. also dates pertaining to when salesmen samples were to be ready. If you look at 1972 catalog closely you will not see the 153 listed but if you look at two of the display cases you will see them there.lots of good info. I'll post sone pics hopefully tomorrow.
 
Thanks James. "The devil is in the details" as they say. The end of year records will not state when the Walden stamping started or ended or how many units were stamped that way. A memo might discuss the quantity and date of salesman's samples, photosamples etc., maybe even the tang stamp changeover. But I am yet to see any dated memos on that particular detail on any of the Schrade Walden/Schrade knives. There might even be a tang stamp order print somewhere. Such fine details were evidently not considered important enough to preserve the minutia of memos and product engineering change orders. We have really been lucky that as much survives as does. But every little clue is helpful.
 
You are exactly right. I can tell you when the art work had to be ready,when the samples were ready, and when they ordered new tang stamps. But I can't tell you how many they stamped out. I can only guess but have decided it's not all that important. The big thing is finding one to call my own. It looks like they shipped the 153 with some of the elephant hide sheaths to sears or at least they planned to. This would really complete my uh collection! I can not post picks until I get the ok as the memos I have are not mine. I do want to share some info I've been looking at that pertains to the 165ot. Memo from Dave date November 29 1972. "dept 606 new hunting knife line"[ sears robuck and co.has advised they have accepted our new hunting knife presentation,consisting of
8 hunting knives made in ellenville
2 hunting knives made in providence
1 fish fillet knife made in providence
This will be their complete line and they will no longer have an American eagle and standard line case,all of these 12 numbers will be bunched together in a new case design and style yet to be determined.
The merchandise list on the new line will go out effective may 1 1973 and knives should be available for shipment on all items at that time. The items that we are presently making that will be discontinued are as follows
73601 (141ss)
73602 (25ot)
73603 (166)
73604 (165ot)
73612 (148s)
73627 (165aw)
73618 (125lb)
73619 (147s)
.....165ot all weather handle-this knife will use the solid black 2 rivet all weather old timer handle with 5/16 brass butt and regular 165 or guard. Rivets and sheild will be brass. Blade to be tang stamped craftsmen USA etched in two lines
Deerslayer
A. C. A. Edge
This knife will carry the Ava edge,will use our regular 165ot sheath made of elephant grain leather and will be packed in the same box now being used on the 73604(165ot ae) yearly estimate-4000 pieces]
hope this helps. To much info here the estimate for the 171 was 2000 pieces same sheath.
 
The hone steel was the other knife in the sears case to make 12. I just noticed the numbers did not add up. It was made in providence also. Jc penny was a big account at the same time and lee olsen had 165s made with his own tang stamp. Gordon jewelers was another customer ordering knives in this time period
 
Olsen is a new one on me as well. I believe I have shown three (?) different AE boxes here. Excellent information there James! I have often transcribed memos and orders to redact names and confidential details like internal costs. Larry303 has kept better count than I, but I believe that four or so SW stamped 153's have come to our attention so far. Whatever the actual number produced, it was evidently not many before the stamp changed. I thought I had seen a 153 in the elephant hide sheath before. I'll see if I have a picture archived. Of course it may have been a 153 in a 165 sheath since so few of the AE knives retain their original boxes and bling.

28v32r.jpg
 
Looking closer at lee Olsen knife order(he used his own numbers)it appears I misspoke,he did not have 165's as part of his order. Sorry for the misinformation. Have to double check before posting
 
1969 sears#21653(165ot)
Sears dept 609 J Tamburino office manager
3245 west arthington st Chicago 60607
1970 sears #21624 deerslayer
Schrade walden#165-6 est. 1900
H. C Crittenden,buyer dept. 609 hardware
Merchandise,development and lab building
3301 w arthington st
1967 D Essig office manager dept 609
925 s homan ave Chicago
 
You guys are 165 junkies. I thought I was bad. You have to tell me how to post a pic or two. I have an absolutely mint 165uh schrade walden. Same with my 171sw. any directions would be appreciated
 
James, excellent info!! I probably saw you when you were at Canal Street, I work at the bench right next to Dave's! So many people come through I can't keep track, were you looking for a Sharpfinger sheath at one time? To post pics you'd need to use an outside photogallery like Tinypic or Photobucket. Copy the pic from there (they often have a URL you can copy for forums) and then past in your post using the little picture link in the menu bar at the top of the reply window. Or you can email them to me and I can post them for you as well:

ealbers@hvc.rr.com

That Dave's quite the machinist, isn't he?

FYI Lee Olsen was a knifemaker up in Howard City , Made mostly fixed blades but wanted a line of folders as well so he contracted some through Schrade/Ulster. The covers are the old delrin ones used on the Cole National knives. Patterns were standard Schrade and Ulster patterns. I might have a few around here I could scan.

Cal, excellent honesteel, hadn't seen a Craftsman yet!

Eric
 
I'm sure I've seen you at canal street ive been there a bunch. I delivered that new spot welder for Wally. Not looking for any sheaths but I did bring a sharpfinger blank to Harold to finish for me. That knife is going to have a great story!it's going full circle. Thanx for the info with Olsen. I did notice his order was all pocket knives.I don't know if that sears info can help anyone. Goin back 40 years or so but you never know. I know how valuable a peice of info can be when you have an affliction such as we do. I found someone with a schrade walden 153 and we are just beginning to negotiate a price. It does not have an elephant hide sheath so my quest will continue. Every time I think I'm close to finished with my uh collection there seems to be one more knife. I picked up a171 from alex. He had an extra. He sharpened the top part of the blade at the old factory himself. That's a cool knife. Thanx also for the offer to post pics for me. I'm going to take you up on it. I'm a little tech challenged sometimes. Maybe I'll see you at work tomorrow if your there. I have a knife to pick up in walden and have to check on a proto type walley is holding for me. If it's ready
 
Aha! OK now I know who you are, last time you were in I was eating lunch LOL! Alex showed me that knife, it's a beauty! Likely an older one as I don't think they sharpened the swedges on those knives for very long. Dave was working on a sample of the new clip blade sheath knife yesterday if that's the one, don't think it's done yet as he's still working on the handle. I think Alex was working on a proto yesterday as well, but I'm not sure which one it was, I've been buried under a 500 knife order for the NRA. It'd be a pleasure to post the pics for you, I've certainly had plenty of practice on this forum :D

See ya tomorrow!

Eric
 
I'm sure I've seen you at canal street ive been there a bunch. I delivered that new spot welder for Wally. Not looking for any sheaths but I did bring a sharpfinger blank to Harold to finish for me. That knife is going to have a great story!it's going full circle. Thanx for the info with Olsen. I did notice his order was all pocket knives.I don't know if that sears info can help anyone. Goin back 40 years or so but you never know. I know how valuable a peice of info can be when you have an affliction such as we do. I found someone with a schrade walden 153 and we are just beginning to negotiate a price. It does not have an elephant hide sheath so my quest will continue. Every time I think I'm close to finished with my uh collection there seems to be one more knife. I picked up a171 from alex. He had an extra. He sharpened the top part of the blade at the old factory himself. That's a cool knife. Thanx also for the offer to post pics for me. I'm going to take you up on it. I'm a little tech challenged sometimes. Maybe I'll see you at work tomorrow if your there. I have a knife to pick up in walden and have to check on a proto type walley is holding for me. If it's ready
 
james counsellor said:
You guys are 165 junkies. I thought I was bad. You have to tell me how to post a pic or two. I have an absolutely mint 165uh schrade walden. Same with my 171sw. any directions would be appreciated
Click to expand...

Yes. Yes I am. There is always one out there with an earlier number, or better condition, or complete with box and paperwork, or a different special factory order. So far, Sears seems to have been the prime early buyer for special versions. Well, and Norm Thompson. Speaking of which... you wouldn't happen to have a memo regarding the quantity or buyer of the Norm Thompson Shikari knives? A lot of info has been dug up here and there, but no original packaging or quantities. Judging by serials, the knives were pulled at random from the production line, mated with the special sheaths, then shipped until the order was complete. Some SFOs were simply shipped bulk packed and perhaps these were, Norm Thompson providing their own custom packaging.
 
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