Posts By LVC

CPC

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
488
Hi folks,

There was a thread a while back about sharpening Busse's (I know, there's millions of them). There were some very informative and detailed posts made by Last Visible Canary about angles he uses on choppers etc. I've searched and searched but can't find it. Does anyone remember it? Can anyone provide a link? Thanks.

Chris.
 
LVC's posts are great. They are some of the most informative and thought out threads that I have read.


Garth
 
Yup--LVC is one of the most experienced, thoughtful and scientifically well-educated of all who post here, always generous with his time and patient when answering questions and helping others. Lucky to have him.
 
And he has a crazy spinal column tattoo!

224307_6317616865_769951865_215348_8938_n.jpg
230967_6317571865_769951865_215339_6300_n.jpg
 
Thanks for the help guys, but I've still had no luck finding for the post I was after. LVC's posts have got to be the most informative ones on here.

Maybe someone can help me though - I've just received my Wicked Edge sharpening system and I want to get stuck into my BWM. Can anyone tell me the preferred edges and angles they use on their choppers? Thanks.

Chris.
 
I'm here :) though I don't think I'm half of whats being said here.

At this point, with INFI at least, I put 24 degree's on everything with an 18 degree relief bevel. The type of use the knife will see determines how wide the relief bevel is and thus the thickness right behind the 24 degree bevel. On a slicer I'll bring it down to .020" thick (similar to the CABS), If it's a chopper I'll leave it around .035". On other steels that are harder or will see much lighter use, like my case stockman, I'll use a 15 degree relief all the way to the edge to where I'm creating an inconsistent burr, then I'll do a 24 degree microbevel.

I do this partly because it's easy without having to think about whether the edge can take what I'm doing to it or not, and partly because this is the thinnest bracket of edge thicknesses Busse Combat puts out. The .035" is around what the competition edges are (choppers), .020" is what the cabs is set at (slicer). Any thinner then that and it's below what Jerry has been willing to put out when he puts out thin edges on production pieces.

I don't know if this helps or not, but... (all angles are per side), the "40 degrees" should be 35)
Untitled.jpg


If you want someone who knows a lot about pushing the performance of edges based on what the steel can and can't do, I would highly suggest looking up posts and video's by cliff stamp. He generally trends towards 12-15 degree's per side, depending on the rougnness of the work. He considers 15 degree's per side to be for "rough work", which is a very different school of thought than what seems to go into current production combat knife edges, which are often between 30-50 degree's per side. The idea being that the thinner the edge is the less resistance the edge experiences and thus less force is applied to the edge that could deform it. In practice I've found infi to be too malleable to sustain a good working edge at such acute angles with how I use my knives, but I haven't tested that on other harder or less maleable steel like cliff has, and he puts more thought into method of use.

http://www.youtube.com/user/CliffStamp/videos
 
Last edited:
Fantastic. Thanks very much for that. I'm not exactly sure how I'll be able to control the thickness of the edge in front of the relief bevel with my Wicked Edge though. I haven't used it yet (or even read the instructions properly) but I think it's designed mostly for a single bevel. I could space the knife up in the clamp with something... maybe wire?

Chris.
 
Fantastic. Thanks very much for that. I'm not exactly sure how I'll be able to control the thickness of the edge in front of the relief bevel with my Wicked Edge though. I haven't used it yet (or even read the instructions properly) but I think it's designed mostly for a single bevel. I could space the knife up in the clamp with something... maybe wire?

Chris.

The wicked edge system allows you to control angles much like the edgepro system does. You should be able to set your stones to multiple angles for multiple bevels, or to a single angle through the sharpening process to get a single wide bevel.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBpA74DxTIE

[youtube]TBpA74DxTIE[/youtube]
 
How do you set your relief bevel .035" behind the edge?

I started using the Wicked Edge on my BWM this arvo. I have had to take A LOT of steel off. I'm making an 18 degree back bevel and a 24 degree edge. Obviously, because of the length of the blade, the nature of the sharpening system and the design of the knife profile, most of the steel is coming off the belly and the tip. So much so that I've had to move up to a 27 degree edge in that area. However, this would not be a true 27 degree angle because of the distance from the pivot on the sharpening arm. It's probably closer to 24 degrees (I hope that makes sense). It has taken me several hours just to roughly re-profile the edge of the knife and I've worn out the 100 grit diamond stones the Wicked Edge came with. My lungs are mostly filled with INFI dust.

Once it gets light again I'll continue to move up in the stones and try and get a nice, sharp, polished edge. Once the re-profiling is done it should be easy when I need to give it a touch up. My only concern at this stage is that I'm taking too much off the tip area and compromising it's strength.

Chris.
 
It does make sense. Thats one of the reasons I like the rough stones from edgepro, they are cheaper and take off metal faster, but as a downside wear down much faster than a diamond plate. I'll go through a stone in about 2.5-3 heavy reprofiles on thicker busse's because of how thick they are at the edge, especially at the tip. If you have to take off a ton of metal and you've got really steady hands, you might consider taking a file to the shoulder initially just to knock some of that metal off and save your more expensive stones. I've used belt sanders really lightly on things like the basic 11 just because I knew I'd have to take so much off with the stones that I'd end up wearing one down when I didn't want to.

How strong you want the tip depends on what you want to do with it. If you intend on running the tip into the ground a lot where there are going to be rocks, you can leave the thickness above the 24 degree bevel a little thicker, and thin it out along the main edge. I have seen examples of competition finish knives like the Jack hammer that have very thin tips, consistently at .035" from ricasso to tip with fairly thin convex taper. So Jerry has put out knives he felt comfortable with that would see abuse with that thin of a tip, just not normally on cg production knives. The way I measure it is by getting a micrometer or caliper and measuring at the line created between the bevels, which is right at the top of your 24 degree bevel. If you are measuring to .020 the height of your main edge should be pretty small, if it's at .035" it'll be a little taller. Your relief bevel will tend to get kind of ridiculous at the tip, since jerry changes the grind to be much, much thicker there. It's up to you how important it is to have a tip that's similar to your main edge. For me, I want my relief grind to take off the shoulder at the same angle, so all I have to worry about is that last small 24 degree bevel. It makes for much, much easier sharpening later on since your taking off less metal each time.

This is an example of what you can do with a micrometer or caliper set thats got enough clearance. I asked sr223 to help me make a spread sheet by measuring different models of boss jacks at 1/8" intervals, and here are the results of the overall geometries:
bossjackcomparisons3.jpg


The 24 degree bevel I have on my proto and the one I had on the custom shop was actually at 1/32" tall, when measured there the proto is .038" thick at the main edge and belly, and oddly at .028" at the tip. The proto is a little weird in that it gets super thick at the belly, but has a nice taper along the spine that makes the tip fairly thin. Lots of metal off of the belly:
zzP1020699-1.jpg





So to measure your edges thickness you'd take something like this (from longislandindicator.com):
item2a1.jpeg

and measure at the line between bevels:
P1100201.jpg
 
Last edited:
Heres an example of an belly/tip that was taken down to relatively thin for it's size (the bottom knife, a KZII) and one that was left relatively thick (the top knife, a B11). The kzii was so thick that I did 5 or 6 bevels to give it a rounder profile, leaving the edge itself to be a thin 24 degree bevel. On the basic 11 I got really tired of sharpening it, and I intended to beat on it pretty good so I just let the 24 degree bevel take over half the edge profile, probably at something like .050" at the tip and belly.

zP1070348.jpg
 
Love this thread!!! Just trying to digest it all. I have used benchstones for most of my life and just 'eye judged' the angle......not scientific, but I can usually put a mean edge on a knife. I am thinking about buying a wicked edge or edgepro system. Thanks for the quality posts last visible canary!
 
So much so that I've had to move up to a 27 degree edge in that area. However, this would not be a true 27 degree angle because of the distance from the pivot on the sharpening arm.

If you want to make sure the angle is where you want it to be at the belly and tip, you could probably reclamp it at a slight angle so the stone is come up to it at an angle closer to perpendicular.
 
Back
Top