Powder metal?

[bodfish]

I relaize I'm not the brightest bulb in the room, so a little help here getting my head around this...please.

I recently took delivery of a U2 folder from Fallkniven and it's made with some kind of powder metal laminate. Now I know this isn't real new, but the WHY is what I'm trying to figure out. This blade sharpens easily, and so far holds an edge as good as any O1 blade I've ever made. But maybe not too much better than a good hard tempered flat grind would.

So, this is a laminate process, right? Are they trying to get a production of easy to do lam stock? What's the advantage of the powder, anyway.

I don't think I'll try it, just curious.

Thanks.

 

[mete]

Laminates and powder metal are two different subjects. Laminated blades have been used in Scandinavia for at least 1000 years ! In the old days steel was expensive so often tooling was made of iron with a steel cutting edge.This idea has been reinvented in more recent times in various products such as bimetal saw blades, and of course knife blades .My Fallkniven S-1 has a core of VG-10 and outside is 420 .Their website has info on increased bending resistance using laminated blades.....Powder metal is another subject .These powder steels are very high quality ,very precisely controlled chemistry .In addition making it with powder permits some composition that can't be made any other way. Other than bending and cost the outside has little importance . The core is what makes the blade .As far as VG-10 goes , I think it's a winner ! Fallkniven has some fancier cores but I haven't tried them.....Their SPGS with high C, Mo and V should perform significantly better than O-1 !!

 

[bodfish]

I re-checked their website, and indeed, it says "powder laminate steel."

Some super duper 007, throw down, bayeou boogie stuff. The steel analysis is unreadable with my browser, so can't comment on the ingredients.

The advantage is supposed to be higher edge retention. Like I said, it's pretty good, but not crazy enough for me to get religeous about it

Now, in my limited experience, I have found properly HT 01 to be about as good as it gets for edge holding........haven't tried the exotics much. So yeah, this could be better than even that.

So, they make up a core using this powder for some extreme Rc value without brittleness? Mine is Rc 62 I think. Maybe a stainless for the outer layers?

Like I said, I like it a lot, so far, but no way to make it in my shop, I suppose.

 

[John R. Fraps]

Bodfish,
As a knifemaker, I will not argue that 01 is a fine tool steel, and holds a good edge.
My first slipjoint has an 01 pair of blades and springs.

As a long-time lurker, and occasional poster on Bladeforums, and as a knifemaker (stock removal is my trade), I will never argue with anything Mete says about metals, even if I don't understand everything he has to say...He is a Metalurgist by profession...I don't know, but probably has an MS, if not a PHD in Metalurgy ( I am sure I misspelled miserably....Please excuse)....
you asked for an opinion, one of the most knowledgeable steel skilled knife enthusiasts (again, please pardon the spelling lack of skill). responded....Oh, and so is "this old knifemaker"......

 

[fitzo]

Bodfish, I do see where they call it a "laminate powder steel". It is possible that their steel is something along the lines of Damasteel but has 3 layers instead of many. Damasteel is made from powdered steels with a process called hot isostatic pressing. You can read about it on their website in Sweden. http://www.damasteel.biz/production.html

Meanwhile, here is the analysis of the core steel of your U2:

C 1.40%
Cr 15.00
Si 0.5
Mn 0.4
Mo 2.80
V 2.00
S 0.03
P 0.03

 

[bodfish]

Bodfish,

you asked for an opinion, one of the most knowledgeable steel skilled knife enthusiasts (again, please pardon the spelling lack of skill). responded....Oh, and so is "this old knifemaker"......

Well, heck guys, I didn't mean to argue anything. PLUS, I didn't know about the talent lurking around here!

He says it will perform much better than O1, then I'll be happy to confirm it after I use it for awhile

Mainly, I was just trying to figure out the WHY of it all. We all look for better steels, right? And many a maker has gone bonkers trying newer stuff.

So, many apologies for any percieved "arguing". Just trying to have a little discussion about all the fuss, is all.

But one more point that may affect us all:

Will these new steels, that can't be made in our shops, be a factor in what we make in the future? AFter all, Fallknven is offering finished blades by themselves....

 

[mete]

First it's spelled Metallurgist ,and second I only have a BS degree. ...The SPGS has lots of carbides ,really hard wear resistant ones of MO,and V.Many more than O-1.It is a stainless steel as you can tell from the high chromium content. Definitely that steel will hold an edge better than O-1.Use your U2 and give us a report !

 

[deker]

First it's spelled Metallurgist ,and second I only have a BS degree.

I know all about BS degrees! I'm going to start a degree next month that's almost entirely BS!

The ranking goes something like this:

BS = Bull $%&!
MS = More $%&!
PHD = Piled Higher and Deeper

All joking aside, Mete really knows his stuff (or if he doesn't, he's darned good at faking it and making it sound believable!) and has done a huge amount to help the makers around here understand a teensy little bit about the science of what we're doing. Hats off to Kevin Cashen as well in this regard.

-d