Practical use of acute apex EDC knife?

Ace, I never claimed to know precise angles when freehand sharpening. However, I've been sharpening blades a long time. I know the difference and am able to sharpen to lower angles consistently as well as higher angles, depending on the knife, intended use, material to be cut, etc. Also the use of different sharping medium, diamond, wet/dry sandpaper, coarser grits, finer grits, bench stones, lapping film, diamond paste, stropping, etc.
I'm just interested in folks intended use when using lower angle bevels and a more acute apex. Also, varying amount of "polished" edge.
I'm not arguing the benefit of using a guided sharpening system and precise angles. Respectfully, I have the means to get any/all the different guided, precision adjustable angle systems. I'm just not interested in using them.
 
I could probably do everything I need to do with my knives at 20 degrees per side. I never polish the bevels.

I'm a "good enough" sort of guy.

I don't do much that requires super thin, laser beam splitting edges. I wonder what everyone else is doing.
 
Mary, a bit cynical take considering you are a moderator of a knife forum? Instagram posers/posters would probably be a very small percentage of BladeForums member's knife use?
 
David is fine. Mary is commonly misunderstood to be a part of my name.

My comment was mostly in jest, referencing my opinion that spending the time to make an edge extremely thin or polished, to the point it splits hairs, serves those who ogle knives more than those who use them, or at least those who use them the way I do which is hard on edges (shop knife, cardboard knife, EDC knife, etc.) and requires maintenance soon enough regardless of how sharp I initially get it, or what steel it is made from.

This is one of the reasons I like knives very thin behind the edge, and make them that way unless otherwise requested. Because that way there is less material for the user to have to remove when sharpening and reprofiling, making the task quicker so they can get back to cutting sooner, even with a moderate edge angle of, say, 20° per side, which roughly the microbevel I use on knives I make and use, with some exceptions.
 
Interesting opinion. I'm very sure you are much more knowledgeable and experienced than I, so I defer. I have much to learn, even at age 62 and having been using knives about 55 years.
Many types of knives and many, many uses.
Best regards David.
 
alongoria said:
I'm very sure you are much more knowledgeable and experienced than I, so I defer.
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I wouldn't know, we haven't played trivial pursuit together yet.

alongoria said:
I have much to learn, even at age 62 and having been using knives about 55 years.
Many types of knives and many, many uses.
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Let me send you an example of what I mean to try out for a while, and see if you like it.

alongoria said:
Best regards David.
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Thank you, you as well.
 
David, sincerely, the reality is I really do have a LOT to learn (and not just about knives). I appreciate your and everyone's sharing of info and experience.
I don't initiate posts/threads often, nor post much in general. With knives (along with so many other things), I will humbly benefit much more by reading, listening, and practicing my skills.
Also, I truly thank you for your generous offer. I have seen the responses of people here regarding your knives. I have no doubt you make a great blade/knife.
Thank you for your contributions to the forum.
Respectfully and with best regards
 
I don't need a hair splitting, sky piercing, molecular severing edge. A serviceable working edge is perfect for me, strop more than sharpen, it'll keep on going.
 
I think T Twindog is saying he prefers thin behind the edge, even if the edge itself is created by angles not considered super acute. These differences all seem to come down to where you put the shoulder and what the angle and distance between it and the apex is.
 
alongoria said:
Ace, I never claimed to know precise angles when freehand sharpening. However, I've been sharpening blades a long time. I know the difference and am able to sharpen to lower angles consistently as well as higher angles, depending on the knife, intended use, material to be cut, etc. Also the use of different sharping medium, diamond, wet/dry sandpaper, coarser grits, finer grits, bench stones, lapping film, diamond paste, stropping, etc.
I'm just interested in folks intended use when using lower angle bevels and a more acute apex. Also, varying amount of "polished" edge.
I'm not arguing the benefit of using a guided sharpening system and precise angles. Respectfully, I have the means to get any/all the different guided, precision adjustable angle systems. I'm just not interested in using them.
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You misunderstood me or maybe read something into what I wrote that I didn’t write. I also freehand sharpen and I don’t have a guided system of any kind. I wasn’t advocating for one either. All I was saying was that you can’t know your exact angles and so can’t anyone else free handing. Of course you can sharpen at more or less acute angle, you just don’t know exactly what it is. So if I tell you I sharpen at 15 dps it doesn’t mean anything because you don’t know what your angles are and I don’t know what mine are regardless of me thinking it is 15 dps if I am freehanding.
 
Crag the Brewer said:
Haha, true.....but I was a tool room machinist since I was like 8 years old so decimals are important to me.... Like some people are picky with grammer? 😬

Me, not so much.
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So, a third grader who came from a rough neighborhood with parents that, shall we say are not pillars of the community, was in grammer/grammar class. The teacher asked, "What comes after a sentance?"

To which the young lad said, "An appeal!"

Anyways, even though I have a few different devices that can set/hold a certain angle for sharpening I rarely use them. Freehanding works but I do believe thatl, over time, the edge witll eventually be convex - which is actually fine with me and even preferred for some applications. Slicey knives are fine and certainly have their place/uses, but for "EDC" the tasks, at least for me, are too varied and unpredictable. My SAKs are the slicers and my EDC folder(s) are the "whatever" knives where less actute angles and eventually convex[ish] edges work fine for me.
 
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ace said:
See we have to acknowledge that when free hand sharpening speaking of precise angles is just fantasy land. Unless you are sharpening on a guided system or maybe something like sharpmaker you have no idea what your angle actually is especially since with free hand sharpening your edge is convex with compound angle of unknown degrees. No way around it with free hand sharpening.
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That's like saying "No one can shoot offhand and keep their bullets within 1 minute of angle. The only way it can be done is with a benchrest." Not true. Plenty of folks can shoot to that level of precision offhand. Like anything, it takes practice, but it is entirely within the realm of "doable."

And plenty of folks can hold that level of precision when freehand sharpening or using any hand tool. It's just a matter of consistency. I suspect most machinists can pull it off just fine.
Just because I can't do it, doesn't mean nobody can do it.

ETA: I just read your reply above, Ace, and now realize that you weren't talking about precision (repeatability) so much as accuracy (knowing the exact angle in degrees), and while I tend to agree with you more on that point, I only agree up to a certain degree, because it's kind of like saying that no one can hum a particular pitch without a tuning fork, dial tone or some other reference. But plenty of musicians have "perfect pitch" and can pull a musical note (frequency) out of their heads and hum it, and it will match the instrument down to ±1 Hz difference.

In the same way, I suspect a lot of machinists and even woodworkers and draftsmen could get pretty darn close to protractor accuracy without a protractor...not that the actual exact angle really matters that much; I would argue that precision (consistent repeatability) matters more than protractor accuracy and being able to name the angle down to the nearest arc-second when sharpening a knife...I also suspect that a small amount of convexity in the bevel (due to errors in precision) is not necessarily a deal-breaker and that the bevel(s) need not be absolutely planar (and will probably never be planar on any knife that has been stropped, since stropping will pretty much always introduce some degree of convexity)...but YMMV... 😁
 
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I use my edc knives for a bunch of random stuff. From this experience I have shifted my opinion lately. For a long time I was putting 17dps on all my edc knives but lately I’ve changed to 20dps, and I think even more substantially is that I’m stopping at a 1000 grit diamond stone. This gives the edges a toothy grab that’s still laser sharp. But the 20° does seem to hold up better for all the random things I cut with my edc. If I was just slicing cardboard for work all day then I’d probably drop it back down.
 
Cementite said:
That's like saying "No one can shoot offhand and keep their bullets within 1 minute of angle. The only way it can be done is with a benchrest." Not true. Plenty of folks can shoot to that level of precision offhand. Like anything, it takes practice, but it is entirely within the realm of "doable."
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On the internet many can shoot 1 moa unsupported offhand all day long and twice on Sunday. In reality if you could consistently shoot 10 shot moa groups offhand unsupported (no jacket, no sling) you’d be in the Olympics. So in this sense your example is similar, but you are right I wasn’t really talking about that. I was just pointing out that without actually measuring you don’t know what your angles are when free hand sharpening, that the edge is convex and that varying this angle by precise degrees belongs in fantasy land. I am not arguing that a certain degree is better or that it should be 15 vs 20 or that convex is bad.

The OP asked how many go below 30 inclusive and admitted of never measuring his angles. This is similar to most free hand sharpeners to not measure angles, I certainly don’t so me telling him my angles are 30 or less is meaningless because I don’t actually know and him getting this information is meaningless because he doesn’t know what his angle is now and he can’t adjust it precisely enough anyway. This is why I go as acute as I can before I start seeing issues and then back off a little. Repeatability is certainly possible, precision not so much, but I agree that precise angles are not as important unless you are trying to do fine and specific adjustments in which case you need to actually measure and use a device to make adjustments.
 
SALTY said:
So, a third grader who came from a rough neighborhood with parents that, shall we say are not pillars of the community, was in grammer/grammar class. The teacher asked, "What comes after a sentance?"

To which the young lad said, "An appeal!"

Anyways, even though I have a few different devices that can set/hold a certain angle for sharpening I rarely use them. Freehanding works but I do believe thatl, over time, the edge witll eventually be convex - which is actually fine with me and even preferred for some applications. Slicey knives are fine and certainly have their place/uses, but for "EDC" the tasks, at least for me, are too varied and unpredictable. My SAKs are the slicers and my EDC folder(s) are the "whatever" knives where less actute angles and eventually convex[ish] edges work fine for me.
Click to expand...

I'm a free hand grinder, and sharpener as well.... My angles and edges are Wonky, at best....haha. Knife making is my creative outlet. It's funny with my machining background that I do most everything by eye.I

*But I agree from a comment from above that some types of professions can see & do things differently.
 
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