Predictable hardness (it has been while since I typed a tome)

Kevin
I've been reading your posts for a few years now and have learned more from you than any other source.
The subject of heat treating steels is so complex, and there are so many variables it seems impossible to simplify.

To answer your question, I'm going to stick my neck out and attempt to be of help.

I'm an average guy of average intelligence, (electrician) never been good at processing the printed word.

Any way first post, paragraph #4 quote:

"This distortion will be accomplished by a tilting of entire plains of atoms in sequence which is facilitated by a shearing action at the interfaces of these plains."

That sentence made my brain work (hurt) just a little. Too much info? If you delete it you would be dumbing down. Not sure why I had a little trouble with it.

Mark
 
Mark thanks for helping out, I can't fault you for having some trouble with that line since I followed it with
Now that all sounds very technical, and it is, so all we really need to remember is that there is a whole lot of deformation and strain going on at the atomic level in order for steel to harden, and the driving force is the cooling.
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This is the stuff I wished I had a couple more pages to describe in more detail, and there is the one of the problems, nobody wants to read several pages of run on paragraphs on a chat forum but it is the process of making these concepts understandable in plain English that causes the posts to be so voluminous. If I could just use the precise metallurgical terminology I could easily put everything in the first three posts in one short paragraph but only those with a very good grounding in metallurgy could understand it. But the opposite end of the spectrum, that has so poorly served our craft, of an over simplified recipe backed up with mere assumptions, wild claims and little more than "because I said so", is not at all acceptable to me. I insist on giving detailed explanations behind my positions so that you can make educated decisions and arm yourself with the tools to write your own recipes. I just need to find a way to bridge the gap between the two extremes.

I do know where people are coming from, we are all wired differently to more easily assimilate certain types of information, for some it may be large technical words that triggers an off switch in the brain, for me it is mathematics, when I read a metallurgy text I don't even see the numbers or equations, I just read past them as if they are not there and then I find I have a huge blind spot in the information I have assimilated when I reach the end of the chapter. I have to physically force myself to reread and work out those numbers in order to register the concepts they represent, when the vocabulary and spacial imagery freely flowed into my brain, I see no reason that another person wouldn't have the opposite problem.

But the part that matters is that you, just like me, have the desire to assimilate that information, rather than dismissing it as irrelevant to avoid the effort, it is the challenge of continually adding more information to the skill set of our mind and hands that keeps us growing for the better. I have in the past read and done things that held no interest for me simply because I felt I would be a more complete person for it. If folks promise to continue trying to use whatever I type I promise to keep typing;)
 
Kevin
The reason I like your posts,is the ack you take the time to make the complicated simple enough for us weekend metal heads to understand.
That is also why I am waiting on your book,Ihave read a few metalurgy books and I think you could help me fill in the blanks.
Stan
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
I just need to find a way to bridge the gap between the two extremes.
Click to expand...

I think you're doing a great job of it.

Quote Kevin:
"But the part that matters is that you, just like me, have the desire to assimilate that information, rather than dismissing it as irrelevant to avoid the effort"

My biggest block is I'm lazy, I want that simple "one answer fits all", but I know better, I know I have to learn the fundamentals and build on those, so I keep coming back.

Thanks Kevin for continuing.
 
Markb, are you confused by 'shear ' ? There are two types of transformations we deal with , shear and diffusion. Diffusion is a slower transformation and gives us pearlite and bainite. Shear is what gives us martensite and this occurs very fast , at the speed of sound ! There are various drawings of the martensite transformation but for some they seem to be confusing .
 
Kevin,

I would stick to the adage "a picture is worth a thousand words". I would think that adding a picture of the atoms in different "positions" (before quench, after quench etc), perhaps accompanied by pictures of the analogy (a stack of oranges (Fe), maybe with some lychees (C) in between and some melons (carbides)?) would make wrapping peoples brains around the concepts much easier.

I am a mechanical engineer so I'm used to reading highly technical documentation, but I appreciate a good picture as much as the next guy....

Cheers Rody
 
mete said:
Markb, are you confused by 'shear ' ? .
Click to expand...

Short answer, yes.

I read and reread , but I don't take a systematic, or step by step approach so I have a vague understanding at best. I keep hoping it will all gel someday, LOL.

Self teaching this subject is very limiting in my case.

Step #1 ?
Definitions, I haven't done my homework so it's hard to move forward. This is laziness on my part.

#2 Understanding a TTT diagram.
Refer to #1

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I didn't realize how confused I was (am).:):confused:

Mark Behnke
 
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