Preliminary car shopping - Rants and Raves

[jackknife]

If I may make a sugestion?

I know its a strange looking beast, but go take a look at a Honda Element. No, no, don't run off yet! When you go look, open both side doors and put your child safty seat in it. Observe how there is no pillar to get in the way. Huge opening.

Then look at the floor. Easy to mop up what the kid spills. And he WILL be spilling stuff.

Then look at the gas milage.

Then look inside the rear hatch with both rear seats secured up to the sides out of the way. It gets even bigger when the seats are removed, witch takes about 30 seconds a seat.

It looks better the more you look at it. When the other half wanted one I looked at it and told her flat out we wer'nt getting a car that ugly. No way. No how. Then she talked me into just looking at one.

We've had one for two years now. I was very foolish to have resisted. I now love the car. It has become our main vehicle. It will carry four normal size adults with luggage and dog to Atlanta Ga. from our place in Maryland, (12 hour drive) in comfort, and get a solid 25 miles to gallon while doing it. And rear seat passengers don't feel trapped, they have a full view of the road in front because of the rear seats positions.

It's a different kind of car.

 

[omaha-beenglockin]

With a kid----you can just go ahead and get that 2-seater fantasy out of your head.:jerkit:

Better be lookin at the "real" cars---like your wife.

Its nice to dream about sports cars and such---but put under the cold hearted scrutiny of practicality---which kids force you to do-----a sports car is completely worthless for day to day use. Heck--most of em won't even have enough room for a set of golf clubs---except for the passenger seat.

 

[Bob W]

Thanks for the thoughts.

People shouldn't have to crawl into your back seat through the front door just to satisfy your sense of fashion and style, nor as a concession to your ego.

Yes they should. Someone's mooching a ride from me, they can either crawl in the back or walk. And no bitchin'. Wife's new car will be four-door, so it's not an issue. Cars I'm looking at don't have back seats, so no moochers allowed. And I generally travel alone, so it's not a problem anyway. And I gotta say that once you 'crawl' into a quality two-door car like the Mark VIII, the back seats are roomier and more comfortable than most four-door vehicles, especially "budget" cars.

We've done the four wheel drive thing, and found it didn't do any better than front wheel drive in snow.

I think you're probably right, at least for highway/street use. And so wife is primarily looking for front-wheel-drives. I just don't want to get 'stuck' with something with poor traction like my '94 Cougar. It was a beautiful car with plenty of power, good interior, and comfortable seats. But when the roads were icy, it simply wouldn't stay on the road. The car would slide off whichever way the pavement was sloped.

For my work truck on the other hand, I couldn't get to my job a third of the time without four-wheel-drive. Summers are worse than winter driving because of the clay bulldozed paths that are as slick as ice when it rains. It's actually better driving when everything's frozen solid. There's no such thing as a front-wheel-drive pickup for one thing. For another, two-wheel drive trucks have no clearance. But I'm not shopping for a truck this time around.

All of the vehicles we're looking at get pretty good mileage. Not sure about the LS, but my Mark VIII gets 28-32 and that's with a 280HP V-8. The Avalon that wife test-drove is supposed to get over 30. I think all of the small convertible/sportscars do pretty well too.

One thing I've read, many of the small-engine cars don't achieve their EPA estimates during high-speed travel. I think that's because the small engines have to rev so high to reach and maintain interstate speed. My Lincoln is barely turning 2000 rpm while cruising at 78mph.

Which brings me to one fault of many low-end cars, lack of horsepower. With our high speed limits, long steep climbs, and mountain elevation, driving a slow car absolutely sucks. You lose 3% of horsepower for every 1000 elevation. So in New Mexico and Colorado, you could be down 20-30% in power at the time you need it most.

And the weight of the car, gearing, and other factors affect how the the horsepower 'feels'. Upper-end accelleration? Quick starts? Or smooth low-rpm highway travel? Just depends how you like to drive.

go take a look at a Honda Element

I wonder about roll-over safety? After every big storm the interstate ditches are filled with vehicles of every sort. But full-sized trucks and cars are rarely turned over. But it seems that mini-vans and SUVs have a 50/50 chance of falling over once they're in the ditch. Not a scientific study by any means, but that's how it appears.

Its nice to dream about sports cars and such---but put under the cold hearted scrutiny of practicality---which kids force you to do-----a sports car is completely worthless for day to day use. Heck--most of em won't even have enough room for a set of golf clubs---except for the passenger seat

You're absolutely right, a roadster is more of a toy than transportation. Just like my motorcycle, or like folks that buy boats, four-wheelers, or jet skis. In fact, it's just like having a steamer trunk of pocket knives! (thought I'd toss in some knife content, just for fun.)

Best Wishes,
Bob

 

[rugerno1b]

Of the cars your looking at, don't discount the Mercedes C Class Sedan. It is a bit smaller than the infinity or avalons, but a very nice looking car with all the safety features and creature comforts. It is also available in AWD. My wife is on her second, and I found that they are right in the price range of the cars that you are looking at. Another car that is a good "bang for your buck" is the Acura TL (or CL?) It basically comes optioned out, is roomy, powerful, and reasonably priced (same as her new C). The wife didn't like the "costume" though. As far as, what you should buy, after you know your wife & child are going to be riding in a safe, dependable car, go get what you want. I personally bought a Durango for a few reasons. I can haul both my kids and a friend each, if necessary. It's big enough to be comfortable and go on vacation. I can load & leave my hunting gear in during the season, and it can go anywhere I ask. Mileage sucks at 13 around town, but I only have a 4 mile drive to work. For fun, I have a 1970 Chevelle that I built and occasionally take to the drag races and ice cream stands, with the entire family. If I, or my wife, get the convertible "jones", we (without kids) pull out the 1970 Mercedes 280 SL. I like cars as much as I like knives So, my opinion would be to keep your Lincoln for a few more years, and then go get your convertible, but keep the Lincoln too. Otherwise you may have to go through life regretting getting rid of a beautiful car.:thumbup:

 

[JohnG]

Another plug for the Avalon. I have a 2001, and it's been the best car I've owned. Roomy, powerful when I need it,mechanically perfect, and 30+ MPG on highways. The 2005s are even better, although I don't care too much for the exterior styling.

And while the Subarus get a deserved tickling for weirdo styling--my wife has a 96 Outback and the ergonomics are a little strange(bit nowhere near as bad as some others)--the newer ones, especially with something like the LL Bean package, are downright nice and have corrected some of the little problems on the older versions. Gotta agree that the Tribeca, though, is the A10 of cars--downright odd looking, but it gets the job done.

I also owned two Pontiac Gran Prix; nice enough, and dirt cheap at the end of the model year. Resale value was *significantly* lower than the low end of my research. This of course wouldn't matter if you're keeping it for the lifetime of the car, but it's a factor--a big one--if you don't.

 

[James Green Dragon]

...In the immortal words of my buddy L.O. Eckenrude, a car(Caddy, BMW, Etc) is just a car. But a Lincoln is LUXURY

 

[PerformanceFirst]

It is my understanding that modern snow tires go a long, long way towards making a car snow capable. I wouldn't sweat RWD too much. A lot of sporty cars with AWD won't do well in the snow because of the summer tires they come with. I wouldn't worry too much about an Element rolling over either. It's pretty much a tall Civic. They don't even have very much ground clearance. I have another suggestion for you- the Mazdaspeed 6. It has around 280 hp, AWD, and it's a sedan. I don't think they are available yet, but they will be priced in the high $20s.

 

[Ron Andersen]

Hi All-

A two-door coupe gets "old" for anyone who has to live with them for awhile...whether they have kids or not. Rear doors are mighty handy for extra passengers, hanging jackets on a hanger so they don't wrinkle, or carrying delicate cargo where you don't wish to use the trunk.

~ Blue Jays ~

Wow...there will be those who disagree.

I have two boys, 6 & 10. I've had a small 2-door sports coupe (Nissan 300ZX 2+2) for five years. It hasn't got old at all...if anything, it's gotten better. I really can't think of an instance where I'd go back to a sedan, if so, it would have to ROCK (in both performance and looks)! I rarely cart them both around. When I do, it's about once a month. Then, the kids can find a way to fit. Though the back seat is small, the smaller of them can find a place for their legs. But 99% of he time when I cart them both, I'm with my wife, so we take her sedan. If we go separately, we split the boys.

Bottom line is: I love my boys and I love sports cars. One way or another, I'll find a way to make both situations work!

Also, I don't worry about buying larger items like a TV or microwave (I have them delivered). My dry cleaning gets laid down in the back for three blocks. I take my suit jackets off and lay them carefully on the passenger seat. I get more wrinkles from sitting in my office chair or in conference room chairs. Since I don't have a trunk, I don't carry valuables and then park in a lot somewhere. I always drive the valuables to where I'm going and unload them. Extra passengers? I just don't take any.

I don't consider these issues inconveniences. They are part of the joy of owning and driving a sports car.

We all have differing opinions and values. That's what makes life interesting.

 

[Blue Jays]

Hi Ron-

My four-door cars and trucks are all about utility. When I want to go someplace quickly and simultaneously have fun, I ride my motorcycle. The notion of a two-door coupe just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

~ Blue Jays ~

 

[SpyderJon]

Well, my wife dreams of a Grand Caravan with the "Stow-and-go" seating. I personally- if we're talking about a practical car- would like to have a Toyota Echo (38-40 mpg hwy!!!). It's got four doors, front wheel drive, not too expensive, and is very economical to own- not to mention very reliable. Of course, when we get a new car I'm gonna want to get a Ford 500 because I like our Taurus and that's as close as we're gonna get. Good luck with the search!

Oh, by the by, for the guy looking for the GTO in stock, you can stop asking for most dealers. My brother went to buy one and was told there is a 6 month backlog on them. He ordered one for Christmas for himself. Of course, with 5 kids, I don't think that makes sens, but that's me. I think they're kinda ugly though. They look like a distended Grand Am to me. Oh well, different strokes for different folks. I'd rather have a Harley, or an '86 Monte Carlo with a Chevy Small Block. Like I said, different strokes... :jerkit: !

-Anthony

 

[Bob W]

but keep the Lincoln too. Otherwise you may have to go through life regretting getting rid of a beautiful car.

You know, I thought about upgrading to a newer second-generation Mark VIII. They sure are dirt-cheap on the used market. But I have this desire to own a convertible, and it won't go away. I [/i]almost bought a convertible several years ago, but ended up with a Cougar instead. The car was a Chrysler LeBaron, the last year they were made. The electric roof was way cool!

...In the immortal words of my buddy L.O. Eckenrude, a car(Caddy, BMW, Etc) is just a car. But a Lincoln is LUXURY

I tell ya, that LS was pretty spiffy. Things like touch-screen controls for the stereo and satellite navigation system. Now that's class!! I won't mind at all if wife buys one of those. Heck, I might even want to drive it sometimes just to play with the 'toys'.

Extra passengers? I just don't take any.

You know what? I really don't like to drive with someone sitting behind me. It's creepy.

-Bob

 

[FullerH]

My wife and I have been looking for something to replace our 1998 Dodge Caravan which has nearly 100,000 miles on it. With our teenaged daughter out of the house, we are looking at the new Mazda5, a sort of sporty mini-minivan based upon the Mazda3 and at the Subaru Forester. I asked my wife to consider either the of the smaller Honda SUVs, the Element and the CRV, but she can't live with the SUV looks, so they are out.

Had I the choice, I would buy a Nissan Murano. The ones that I have seen really appeal to me and the three or four people whom I know who own them love them. They are full-time all wheel drive, come with an infinitely variable automatic transmission, and use the same 3.5 liter V-6 as the Nissan 350Z, but tuned for a broader torque curve. The problem is that they run just under $30,000 and that is a bit too much for us to put into a car. *Sigh!*

The problem of Pontiac dealers asking $5000 over list for the Solstice is not Pontiac's fault. Potiac has a hot-selling car on their hands with the Solstice and the dealers, after so many years of eating huge discounts to sell the crap that GM has pushed onto them want to make the most of it. I agree that they may well kill the goose that lays the golden egg is the doing of this, however, by angering people such as yourself. I know that I will not consider going into several of the Toyota and Honda dealers in the Washington, DC, area who did the same with various Toyotas and Hondas over the years. The only Toyota dealer that I will even enter is Koons Toyota and that is because I have had excellent relations with Koons Ford and Koons Dodge, both of whom have treated me very fairly over several years and several cars.

 

[Bob W]

Wife bought a car!!

She test drove the Lincoln LS and Toyota Avalon and looked at sedans at nearly every dealership. I practically dragged her to the Lexus dealer to show her the ES series cars (couldn't buy new, but they had a large selection of used). She test drove the ES, then just for kicks wandered accross the lot to the RX station wagons. She test drove one of those, and fell in love.

So Wife is proud owner of a 2002 Lexus RX 300. Nice ride. Just over 200HP, enough for her. Enough toys to make her happy. All-wheel-drive. Priced a couple thousand below book value. Low miles and excellent condition. The big bonus for her, the 60/40 split back seats fold down seperately, making enough room for two large dogs while still having a seat to attach a baby seat.

The Lexus salesman called this evening to make sure Wife still liked the car and to make sure there weren't any problems. Primary motivation I'm sure was to remind us to recommend him to our friends. Yeah right, as if anyone I know is going to buy a Lexus...

My favorite of the tested vehicles, the '03 Lincoln LS. V8 engine with plenty of power. Touch-screen computer navigation and stereo. More comfortable than anything else we drove. Better handling due to rear-wheel drive. And a shiftable transmission.

Anyway, with Wife's purchase out of the way, my pathway to a convertible is now clear! I've test-driven the Nissan 350Z. Man, that thing is freakin' fast! Either I or the car scared the heck out of wife. The car I tested was a used hardtop. If they'd of had a used convertible in stock, I probably couldn't have helped myself. Plenty of new '05 left in stock, but only the hardtops were affordable. They charge a huge premium for the convertible models... I left my name and phone # in case a used convertible arrives.

I'm also interested in driving a used Thunderbird, but all that I've seen are automatics only - shiftable automatic was available as an option, at least for '05, but I haven't seen one for sale.

The problem of Pontiac dealers asking $5000 over list for the Solstice is not Pontiac's fault. Potiac has a hot-selling car on their hands with the Solstice and the dealers...

I disagree. I think Pontiac is intentionally creating a shortage of Solstice automobiles by limiting production for the sole purpose of hype. They aren't making a car to compete for sales; it's merely a marketing gimmic. If Pontiac wants to sell the Solstice to real people, they need to get cars delivered to the dealers, and in numbers that match demand.

So here's what I've found: Dealer in Pueblo has one Solstice, $5000 over msrp. Dealer in Colorado Springs has one Solstice that's not actually owned by the dealer, it's on consignment for $6,100 over msrp. They say I can order my own with $500 deposit, but there's an eight month wait for delivery.

The salesman told me production was limited to 20,000 units / year. And Pontiac has promised dealers that number would not increase for future years either. For comparison, Mazda is hoping to sell 40,000 MX-5 vehicles this year.

I'm not playing their games. But damn, the Solstice is a beautiful car inside and out. And comfortable too.

-Bob