Preserving an old fur trade belt axe

upnorth

upnorth

Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
7,038
Hi all. Does anybody have a link or info on cleaning\preserving a forged iron belt axe? The old girl was in the ground for about 200 years but is in pretty fair shape. I want to clean it up a little better, stop the oxidation and preserve it. I have started by buffing out surface rust with a small brass wheel. I have many ideas but would like to hear your approach, thanks.

[img=http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8800/img2927f.th.jpg]
[img=http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/5131/img2930r.th.jpg]
 
Looks great, considering.
I took the liberty of reposting the link as an image here:
img2930r.th.jpg
 
Steve Tall said:
Looks great, considering.
I took the liberty of reposting the link as an image here:
img2930r.th.jpg
Click to expand...

I think you made an image of the thumbnail. Here:

img2930r.jpg


img2927f.jpg


Oh, and that's a nice axe - I'd recommend electrolysis to remove the rust. Easiest way to do it without taking too much good metal with it :thumbup:
 
Thanks guys. I'm quite rusty at the whole post up a pic thing, any tips are appreciated. I may well go electrolysis, as I've used it many times in the past. The down side sometimes is darking and patina loss. :(
 
Soak it in regular french's mustard for a day or two. Get's the rust off with out grinding or sanding.
 
Personally, I would leave it alone. Is it marked with a makers mark?

Best regards

Robin
 
Pipeman said:
Personally, I would leave it alone. Is it marked with a makers mark?

Best regards

Robin
Click to expand...

Yup. Looks like AJ, or AI. Not quite sure yet. Brit. pattern I'm told, maybe from Albany New York. The site is varified as 1780's but has some splash over use a bit after that. She came thousands of mile by canoe inland to be lost along the river bank.
 
wow very nice I have one very similar but with a poll forge welded on. so what is the back story with all of that history in the picture? I'd love to see the knives a bit closer and looks like alot of trade silver.
Chris
 
upnorth said:
Yup. Looks like AJ, or AI. Not quite sure yet. Brit. pattern I'm told, maybe from Albany New York. The site is varified as 1780's but has some splash over use a bit after that. She came thousands of mile by canoe inland to be lost along the river bank.
Click to expand...

Unless you know the mark Bernard Levine may be able to help you identify it.
It's a very nice piece in great condition, congrats on the find.

Regards

Robin
 
winterbear said:
wow very nice I have one very similar but with a poll forge welded on. so what is the back story with all of that history in the picture? I'd love to see the knives a bit closer and looks like alot of trade silver.
Chris
Click to expand...

Good eye buddy. I'll post more pics up later.
 
Pipeman said:
Unless you know the mark Bernard Levine may be able to help you identify it.
It's a very nice piece in great condition, congrats on the find.

Regards

Robin
Click to expand...

Thanks, I may or may not have previously contacted Mr. Levine. Hard to keep track some times.
 
winterbear said:
wow very nice I have one very similar but with a poll forge welded on. so what is the back story with all of that history in the picture? I'd love to see the knives a bit closer and looks like alot of trade silver.
Chris
Click to expand...

Unfortunately much of the trade silver is tractor mangled.










 
As a word of caution. I collect WW-2 stuff and almost every form of cleaning etc decreases value.

As for preserving it, keep it in your house.
 
definately good stuff there, even if the tractors did try to eat most of it. the bottom knife almost looks like it was made from a barrel band like a few of the trade points but it is remarkably well preserved was it found in different soil than the other knives or at a much different depth? I would find somebody to help me with the silver and get it back to as good of condition as possible I think it could be straightened out for the most part. On the Axe I kinda agrre with a couple other posts that I would stabilize it getting heavy scale off then leave it alone. I'll try and get a pic of my hawk up tonight .
Chris
 
winterbear said:
definately good stuff there, even if the tractors did try to eat most of it. the bottom knife almost looks like it was made from a barrel band like a few of the trade points but it is remarkably well preserved was it found in different soil than the other knives or at a much different depth? I would find somebody to help me with the silver and get it back to as good of condition as possible I think it could be straightened out for the most part. On the Axe I kinda agrre with a couple other posts that I would stabilize it getting heavy scale off then leave it alone. I'll try and get a pic of my hawk up tonight .
Chris
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Cool. I may get some of the silver straightened out. The hawk. I have tapped off the major scale, given it some electric love, rewashed then brass wire wheel buffed. I'll wire whell it a tiny bit more to bring out the touch marks then put a stabilizer on it. I just applied some cold blue, after a rough stripping, to a New Frontier hawk that I'm currently farting around with. I'll oil her up and she's good to go. I look forward to seeing any old hawk\axes that you have found. I use the modern repos and leave the old girl as a precious piece of history.:thumbup: All finds were in the same mild rich black loam that the farmers love out here.
 
How and when did you get that? Is it from an archaeology site? Did you dig them up? Did a tractor dig them up? Was it your tractor? Did you or the farmer contact a state archaeologist? Has an archaeologist or historian looked at those artifacts? Did you or the person who dig them up record provenience? Who has worked the site and when? Is there more to the site? Are we looking at a Native American Site, a Fur Trade site, an old fort of farm? Things like that, especially that old that valuable, usually belong in a museum, not someone's home. What are you ethical responsibilities here? What are the responsibilities to generations that follow?
 
Fartingbadass said:
How and when did you get that?

-None of your business.

Is it from an archaeology site?

-I believe that you mean ''archaeological''. No, a private farm field eroding into a river along with most of the previously lost relics.

Did you dig them up?

-Yes, It's called metal detecting.

Did a tractor dig them up?

-No, just mangled and crushed them. Maybe I should have left them so that the tractors could finnish the job eh ?

Was it your tractor?

-No, I prefer to ride a Kawasaki.

Did you or the farmer contact a state archaeologist?

-When Saskatchewan becomes a state, I'll get right on it.

Has an archaeologist or historian looked at those artifacts?

-Yes, several.

Did you or the person who dig them up record provenience?

-Of course, finds were recorded in situ, in relation to each other and identifiable local land marks.

Who has worked the site and when?

-The farmers, all their lives.

Is there more to the site?

-There was until erosion washed 85% of it away.

Are we looking at a Native American Site?

-Nope.

, a Fur Trade site, an old fort of farm?

-Mixed occupation.

Things like that, especially that old that valuable, usually belong in a museum, not someone's home.

-Oh really ? So I can give it to a local museum and they can catalogue the finds, put them in a box, and bury them in a filing cabinet in the basement? Don't be so nieve.

What are you ethical responsibilities here?

-I am far more ethicly aware and responsible than you will ever know.

What are the responsibilities to generations that follow?
Click to expand...

My responsibilities are to preserve and record fur trade relics that are eroding away into a major river, to be lost for eternity. My responsibilities are to record EVERYTHING relevant in regard to relic locations. My responsibilities are to donate the relics to my local university with the stipulation that they BE SHOWN and not buried in a basement, as so many museums do. On and on.

I have all of that covered my friend, in ways far more than you know. This isn't my first waltz so relax and know that I am completely ethical. I understand that you have a concern about preserving history, as do I, more than you know. If I didn't give a crap I'd be selling this stuff off like some slimey maggot out for a quick buck. Like B.. in Michigan. At first I was put off with your self appointed Saviour of relics on a high horse attitude. But I tried to be patient with you because I believe that you mean well. Trust me that I am highly ethical and in touch with some archaeological heavy hitters. With an alias like Fartingbadass, you also must have a vast network of connections with those in the field.
 
If you own the land and found it~ forget about "ethics":jerkit:. Frankly, I'm sick and tired of hearing these collectivists/socialists telling us what we can and cant do cuz it "affects the circle of man and takes away from the betterment of humanity":barf:. I wish I could be so lucky to find even an arrowhead. I guess I dont look hard enough, but I have met some people who do find little gems here and there. :grumpy: BTW, not all Americans have the extra money to get into the over priced museums to see history. So why not collect your own relics?
 
upnorth said:
My responsibilities are to preserve and record fur trade relics that are eroding away into a major river, to be lost for eternity. My responsibilities are to record EVERYTHING relevant in regard to relic locations. My responsibilities are to donate the relics to my local university with the stipulation that they BE SHOWN and not buried in a basement, as so many museums do. On and on.

I have all of that covered my friend, in ways far more than you know. This isn't my first waltz so relax and know that I am completely ethical. I understand that you have a concern about preserving history, as do I, more than you know. If I didn't give a crap I'd be selling this stuff off like some slimey maggot out for a quick buck. Like B.. in Michigan. At first I was put off with your self appointed Saviour of relics on a high horse attitude. But I tried to be patient with you because I believe that you mean well. Trust me that I am highly ethical and in touch with some archaeological heavy hitters. With an alias like Fartingbadass, you also must have a vast network of connections with those in the field.
Click to expand...


First things first, my sassy friend, you need to learn how to spell, e.g., naive, not nieve, and slimy, not slimey. You are a looter, pure and simple, and I suspect you do not know what sort of damage you have done, being that you are naive. Obviously, from the pictures you posted, this was a rather spectacular find of fur trade materials. What I saw was the sort of materials archaeologists love to find, but rarely do; especially the historical archaeologists. If you found these things "metal detecting," then, the proper course of action would have been to contact a local archaeologist, so that the site could be dug in a proper archaeological manner. E.g., to argue that you recorded provenience in regards to landmarks shows you do not know what provenience is at all, and your response shows your for a naif. I could go on, but I will not.

This thread should be closed down and removed. This sort of looting of archaeological finds is disgusting and unethical. You destroyed a site that quite possible could have contributed to our knowledge of the past. Verys sad, very sad indeed.
 
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