Preventing problems if knives get to school.

Kwaiken56

Kwaiken56

Joined
Apr 17, 2000
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Most of my 6 kids carry knives of some sort when they are at home, or out and about. There is alway the possibility though that one might be accidentally taken to school, whether in a jacket pocket or in a pair of trousers being hastily pulled on while trying to make it to the bus. Here is what I've outlined for them if they discover that they have inadvertantly left a knife in a pocket.

1. If on the bus, DO NOT remove the knife from your pocket. You know what it is. You know it's a big no-no that you have it. Leave it there. If it's imprinting, but your binder/books on your lap. DO NOT mention to a friend, "Oops...I have my knife on me". Word will spread like wildfire on the bus.

2. Upon arrival at school, go straight to the office or Student Services. Tell whoever is in charge, that you have accidentally brought a knife to school, and would like to turn it in. While doing this, STILL keep the knife pocketed.

3. Ask the adult in charge for permission to remove the knife and hand it to them to keep. Then request that they call Dad (me) to come down and pick the knife up, so that they will not have to carry the knife back home on the bus, where a misunderstanding with fellow students and the busdriver may occur despite previous efforts earlier in the day.

*As mentioned in another post, one of my sons accidentally took a knife to school. He followed my protocol, and all went smoothly. The Head of Student Services even praised my setting up a plan for heading off a potential and serious disciplinary procedure.

Have any of you set up contingency plans such as this for you kids, and have something to add to mine? I'd love to hear them. :)

(Edited for non-caffeinated spelling)
 
Al,

Excellent plan. I remind my kids CONSTANTLY about making sure their knives not brought to school. Explaining how the knives would be percieved at school is also important. I think it's important to beyond just a DONT DO IT!! Having a back up plan is also a very good idea.

Neil
 
in some places i think even that would be a risky plan, it would all depend on the culture of the school, and if they have metal detectors and searches ect.

if there was no chance of it being found i would recomend going to the bathroom and in one of the stalls put it in a backpack or zippered jacket pocket., and ideally calling someone or going home to get rid of it.

At some schools it is not even possible to call home or leave during the day, and if you thought it might be found, i would suggest vommiting and then going home on a sick excuse.

Remmeber honest people can still get screwed!
 
Basically, Mr. Kwaiken56 is teaching his childern to be honest, to respect rules, and to trust authorities. By handling the situation calmly and rationally, the administrator at his school reinforced this lesson.

Mr. LizardKing, however, advocates teaching the children to lie, to evade rules, and to distrust authorities.

On the other hand, Mr. LizardKing is correct to point out that it does depend on the culture and practices of the school in question. I'm constantly reminded of a case here in the Portland area where a child was all but expelled for bringing a gun to school. Now, you might say that any child who brings a gun to school should certainly at least be expelled. But, what you don't know because I haven't yet told you is that the gun in question was about one inch overall, made of plastic, and belonged to the child's GI Joe action figure. The rules are, "zero tolerance for guns" and the school administration choose to enforce that policy to the extreme.

My suggestion would be to discuss the matter with your school's prinipal ahead of time. Explain that knives are a family hobby. That you and your child throughly understand that knives should not be brought to school and that you'll make every effort to keep that from happening. But, in the event that an one does accidentally get there, you'd like to have a plan in place to deal with that situation quietly and within the spirit of the school's policies while teaching your children about honesty, respect, and trust.
 
Sounds like a good plan Kwaiken56, although I do like Gollnicks idea of asking school officials first, just because there are some very unreasonable people in education these days, as his story points out.

Thanks :)
 
I'd reccomend keeping quiet and going about the day normally. Zero tolerance is rampant and common sense isn't so common anymore. They don't care why you had the knife or if it was an accident, the rule says you brought the knife to school so you get expelled/suspended.
If your kids are responsible enough that you let them carry knives all the time, then they're responsible enough to make it through a day of school without getting in trouble or giving someone cause to search them and their belongings.
At least where I went to high school, the zero tolerance policy covered everything on school grounds. If I had left a knife in my truck I could have been expelled. The slightest rumor of a weapon was enough to get you searched.
If no one can see it, the only way for people to know about it is if you let them, or give them a reason to go looking.
 
Sounds like an excellent plan, Kwaiken56.:)

During HS, I brought my knife with me on multiple occasions...BUT only because my school's policy would only give me a 1 day out of school suspension (1 day vacation) if they discovered it, as long as there was no intent to harm. That happened to many people I know...not a big deal. IF the policy was getting expelled, no way in hell would I have carried my knife:)

Warthog
 
This is basically the reason I was expelled from high school myself a few years ago. Zero tolerance can be a pain when it doesn't filter accidental from intentional.

However, I think Kwaiken has the right idea, but should take precautionary enough action to ask the school if there are ways to alleviate situations like this in the event that they do happen. Because things went smoothly once does not mean the same forgiving person will be on the other side of the desk next time, so it'd be a good idea to ask the school if they have some sort of policy for this.

Smart thinking, and wise parenting!
 
Nothing to add as it seems very reasonable what you have set up. I think it is a shame that we have come to this. Twenty years ago when I first began teaching in middle school I, with the principal's approval, allowed the kids to bring their pocket knives to school on Friday's. At the end of the day, about the last hour of school, I would show them how to sharpen their knives and then set up three crock-stick units and let them sharpen away. Man we had a ball doing this. If I did this today I would be out of a job tomorrow.
I have had only one kid to accidently bring in a pocket knife. He was so "torn-up" over it that I knew it was an accident. I held it that day then returned it to him that afternoon when his mom came to pick him up. I can understand the "zero-tolerance" policy, but it has to be tempered with common sense!
 
Thanks for the positive comments! I can also see the other side of the coin from those who mentioned that perhaps they would keep quiet and just try to get the knife off school grounds by circumventing school administrators. However, that is not to say that I agree. We all live in different parts of the country, and our school rules vary. More importantly, the viewpoint by administrators on tolerance varies widely. There are no metal detectors at our schools. Disregard for school rules is dealt with swiftly, but not with what I would perceive as "zero-tolerance".

For what it's worth, my kids have all gone through the same schools here in the Phoenix/Talent School District, had many of the same instructers, counselors, and coaches. The Machado kids are all well-known and, except for a few instructors, well-liked, lol. Not to brag, because you should see the behavior of these kids at home sometimes! :eek: :o

Debbie and I have made it clear that we are caring parents first, and buddies second. This makes us tyrants initially at times, but in the long run I think my family ends up with a fairly strong sense of right v wrong.
 
I understand LizardKing's point of view, but I really think that kind of action an only be implemented by older kids. I think they (oppose to the younger child) would be able to pick up whether the administration is being unreasonable or not (or at least hear cases) and take the right action to save his hide.
In any case, that sounds like a good honest plan that worked, and likely would work again. It would help even more if your children never cause trouble in school, so that those admins doesn't got a leg to stand on to really cause you trouble.
 
I think zero tolerance is a cop out and should be abolished.
If a child can walk around the mall with all the other people there and be legal in carrying a knife in his pocket, why should being in the supervised atmosphere of education make him a criminal???????
Just happens to be a pet peeve of mine.
When I retire from teaching, I WILL run for the school board and promote a change in the zero policy. Part of the problem of learning responsibility for your actions is to have some.
I think that the rules say zero tolerance of weapons and then the administration will include everything that "They think" is a weapon. They make the rules, You have to play by them.
 
I carry my M-16 every day to school, on a horizontal bp. My dad never worries about it because he knows I don't pull it out while i'm here, and if I do, it is only for a few minutes (lunch) and then it goes right back. The police here are pretty cool about it though, two of the 5 or 6 know that I carry it and have seen me use it, but I was only using it for lunch.

Regards,
Steve
 
Unfortunately, being innocent in a zero tolerance school is not an acceptable defense. In my area, someone left a balisong in their car on the seat. They got it as a souvenier and like any knife nut practiced at stop lights. They knew knives were not allowed in school, so left it in their car. What they didn't know was the knives were not allowed on school property which included the parking lot. Innocent mistake equaled permanent suspension. The kid wound up attending a private school and becoming valedictorian of his graduating class. The local paper used as an example of the ignorance of the zero tolerance policy. However, not one person in that school district has had the guts to stand up and change the policy. It still exists and will still result in expulsion, irrespective of the situation.

We all learn through making mistakes. Zero tolerance policies and mandatory sentencing takes the justice out of our judgements.
 
Originally posted by Matt Shade
I'd reccomend keeping quiet and going about the day normally...responsible enough to make it through a day of school without getting in trouble or giving someone cause to search them and their belongings.
...If no one can see it, the only way for people to know about it is if you let them, or give them a reason to go looking.
Click to expand...

I've been out of high school going on 10 years, and even then they had daily random classroom searches. Basically, everyone in a certain class was scanned with a handheld metal detector, while purses and bookbags were physically searched. This was done to everyone, even the academically gifted students where you wouldn't expect to have troublemakers. There was no bias in which room was searched. They would do at least 5 class rooms a day, and they randomly searched lockers also. Not sure if it is like this everywhere, but this goes to show that the "don't tell and go about your business" idea can get you into even worse trouble.

It's kind of like the drug policy for the service I work for. They do random drug tests where names are randomly selected by a computer. If you have done drugs, you can tell them you have a problem prior to testing, and they cannot fire you. They have to provide treatment. However, if you test and it comes back positive, you can't then say you have a problem. You will be terminated immediately, no if's and's or but's.

Mike
 
Good thread Al. I like your plan and the fact that you are teaching your children honesty. The fact that you let your children have and use knives is rare is a lot of places. I have covered much of the same with my two children. This has come up at our school board meetings and seems to be one of the best ways to handle this situation. I'm glad we have people who are willing to do things right instead of tolerating nothing.


Dean
 
I'm sweating this one more than you can imagine! My kids don't yet carry knives. I have a second grader (age 7) and a preschooler (age 3) ... (here's pictures :D pic1 and pic2). You all know what I do...right? I have knives all over the place (mostly locked up), but there’s still a bunch all over not locked up. My kids are very good. They don’t touch, don’t “experiment,” and don’t goof off with things they shouldn’t (of course my guns are locked up!). But they love that I have knives and love that I work for a knife company. My older son doesn’t understand how jobs work, but wants SOG’s owner to hold my job for him for when he grows up. How cute is that?

OK, I'm sweating a call from his principal (or police) saying that a knife was found in his pocket, backpack, or wherever. Though they don't yet carry knives, they might do the "experimental" show it off thing (I might have as a kid). With “zero tolerance,” in his school district, they’re kicking kids out of school for the rest of the school year over “weapons” issues. I’ve had long talks with my older boy, so he should know better. And being the good boy he is, I don’t think it will be a problem. But I know what I was like when I was young! ... Oh, crap, he’s going to jail! ;)

I do believe that the "honesty" aspect of this thread is absolutely the way to go. Be proactive, be honest, be safe (not sorry). I've even thought of talking to his teacher and principal. But I think I'm realistically about 2-4 years away from any worries.
 
When I was in High School 3 years ago "Zero Tolerance" was a friggen joke.

All the Football players and cheerleaders would go out and get drunk and have their fun. And if they got caught, a slap on the wrist at most, maybe MAYBE a suspension from 1 game. That also went for children of Faculty and Staff.

If anyone else in the school got caught doing anything that was considered "zero tolerance", they would be gone.

By the way, I have carried a pocketknife on me since my parents gave me a housekey. Did I carry it to school? Sometimes. Always? Not that I remember.

Of course I live in Texas where things like that are kinda accepted, but the Tree Huggers are carpetbaggin down here everyday.
 
I went to a little bitty school in Kansas. Maybe 140 kids in my graduating class in 1992. I carried some form of knife with me EVERY DAY! I even took it out and sharpened pencils with it and played "mubledy peg" with a few friends behind the shop building. Teachers saw a lot of students with knives and didn't think it was odd at all. I even remember once in History class, the teacher asked a fellow student if he could use his knife to open a package. He says "sure you can" and whipped out one of those cheapo OTF nato knives. Back in those days there was no zero tolerance. I didn't really know anybody who DIDN'T carry a knife back then. (most of 'em were Buck 110's)

I just can't believe what our society has become. I can't believe that my kids can't enjoy the same amount of freedom I enjoyed as a kid. I am not advocating giving weapons to kids. What I'm saying is when a kid is responsible enough to carry a knife everywhere BUT school, something's wrong with that IMO. When my son carries his knife at home, it's just a knife. But, suddenly when he steps into the school building it becomes a "deadly weapon"? :rolleyes:

Anyway, since my family is definitely "not in Kansas anymore" I think my plan of action would be pretty similar. I'd just tell them to be honest about it.
 
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