Price vs Quality???

LikeHike -

You are very smart in admitting that the whole knife market is confusing with many choices in all prices ranges.

I would suggest taking a bit of time to do your homework and learning about steel, handle materials, locking mechanisms, etc. It isn't hard, it is fun, and there is lots of good info available. Here are three of my favorite links, one by our resident knife wizard Joe Talmadge. Then when you understand what the specs mean in the ads you will never be conned by the pretty pictures. There are some great looking knives that preform like a piece of spaghetti, but they sure look good in the pictures.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368828


http://forums.egullet.com/index.php?showtopic=26036


http://www.ajh-knives.com/metals.html

The last one is very techy, really designed for knife makers but it has some great steel comparisons.

Lastly, I would buy from a company that just makes knives and has a good reputation. As you have seen on this forum if you ask a question you will get all kinds of hopefully educated responses. I think that guy Glesser who responded might have something to do with Spyderco.

Here is an interesting test (with great pictures of knife construction) of large folder models. As you can see price doesn't equal cutting ability (which after all is why we buy a knife in the first place isn't it?).

http://www.britishblades.com/home/articles.php?action=show&showarticle=46
 
Thanks DGG,
I'll check out the sites. I Googled Sal Glesser after reading his response and it appears he is the owner and founder of Spyderco.
I have been doing some research (beginner's level) and that is what prompted my question - it appeared to me that some of the large price jumps were not necessarily merited by what you got for it from a material/utility view.

At the same time I recognize there are subjective levels that go beyond the numbers, measurements, etc. A few months ago I ordered a Fallkniven S1 and F1 with the intent of keeping one and returning the other. Problem was I loved the feel of the quality & design of something so well made. Do I need both? No. Did I return one? NO!
 
I like Sal's take on this. From my own perspective: I've always felt that you get what you pay for but that isn't always the case. I waited three years for a custom folder from a well known knifemakers Guild member and it was the biggest POS I've owned in years. I have never been so disappointed in a high dollar folder. Needless to say I didn't keep it.

When I'm faced with a question of price vs quality I always add in reputation in the equation. Credibility is not something that comes overnight. Once a company or maker has established him/herself with me the price is not so much of an issue with me because I know the quality will be there regardless of the price. In short I tend to be very loyal once I've been swayed a certain way. If the knife is expensive my biggest obstacle is the little woman. My life partner does not share my love of cutlery but sometimes if I clear my throat loud enough she knows it is going to happen so she gives in and 'allows' me to think I am the decision maker in the house. :foot:

STR
 
"If the knife is expensive my biggest obstacle is the little woman. My life partner does not share my love of cutlery but sometimes if I clear my throat loud enough she knows it is going to happen so she gives in and 'allows' me to think I am the decision maker in the house".

That kind of thing seems to come up a lot around here.
 
LikeHike said:
Thanks DGG,
I'll check out the sites. I Googled Sal Glesser after reading his response and it appears he is the owner and founder of Spyderco.
I have been doing some research (beginner's level) and that is what prompted my question - it appeared to me that some of the large price jumps were not necessarily merited by what you got for it from a material/utility view.

At the same time I recognize there are subjective levels that go beyond the numbers, measurements, etc. A few months ago I ordered a Fallkniven S1 and F1 with the intent of keeping one and returning the other. Problem was I loved the feel of the quality & design of something so well made. Do I need both? No. Did I return one? NO!
Click to expand...

But you did it right. You bought knives from a known and respected knife company. They were not the cheapest you could have bought but you recognized the added quality that went into them (or took the word of someone who's opinion you respected as being valid). I have become more interested in the specification of a product as I learned over time that my eye's deceived me. I also learned that value can be created by a good marketing program and has nothing to do with the product being sold.

If I were to pay huge bucks for a knife it would be a very special one-of-a-kind jobbie.
 
Hair said:
I disagree with Joe about the Sebbie versus the 710. The difference is definitly there, but it is in the form of fit and finish, not performance.

The Sebbie isn't more than twice as good as the 710. You pay a lot more to get a little more, as said above. But IMO, it is clearly a better knife. The performance of the two may be very similar, but the Sebenza has fit and finish of a custom level, while the 710 has the same fit and finish as my $30 CRKT. People say that this Benchmade has great fit and finish, or that that Kershaw is flawless. But in reality, they aren't seeing the little details that more expensive knives get right.

To my eye, the fit and finish of every brand-name production folder up until the level of William Henry or Chris Reeve is about the same. Benchmade, Spyderco, Kershaw, Buck, CRKT etc... yes, some are better than others, but they are generally the same. They all have minor cosmetic flaws and occasional lemons that must be returned. These brands do not make perfect knives. They are not in that business, and if they were, they would cost a lot more.
Click to expand...

Hair, without disagreeing with you, let me turn it another way.

My particular knife jones isn't perfection, it's function. I think "fit and finish" means different things to a guy who grades a knife on perfection than it does to one who grades a knife on function. (I'm not saying one way is better than the other, just vive la difference!)

I know I don't have as many toys as some folks here. :D But I've got several dozen production knives, and have owned dozens more (but not hundreds) over the last few decades.

Certainly I have owned BMS and Spydies that had slipped through quality control in a way that WH or CRK might not allow. But I do think that there is a noticeable difference in fit & finish between my BMs and Spydies and my CRKTs, Timberlines, Bucks, KABARs, REKATs, Gerbers, and SOGs. I think the highest end Kershaws, and the very highest end SOGs (titanium Vision) are also around that level.

In my experience, at the same price point, street or MSRP, there is a noticeable difference between these brands. And there is a significant difference in the high end ($115 street, as someone said, is a very sweet place) BMs and Spydies versus the mid-priced decent brands.

Now, is that difference proportional to price? Is a $60 Grip three times the knife a $20 Dozier KABAR is? Is a $120 Presidio, or Manix, six times better?

Absolutely not. As you go up, you pay more for incremental improvements. But I see a jump, as opposed to an incline, as happening between the midline production models and the top production models, just as their is another jump to the semi-custom (IMHO) CRKs and WHs.

All of the above is of course in my opinion, based on the knives I've actually handled, and is full of overgeneralizations. :D
 
The more experienced posters covered the theory and hypotheticals far better than I could. I thought I'd throw in a couple of points on the models the original posters mentioned as I'd looked at buying both of those relatively recently.

The Manix gets you G10 as opposed to FRH
Thicker blade on the Manix
Better/more expensive steel S30 vs. VG10
Better lock on the Manix

So basicly you're looking at getting a better steel (which costs more to work with as mentioned earlier), better handle, and better lock. Greater fixed costs of materials and greater variable costs (labor) are going to drive the price up.

My impression is that knives like the Endura 4 are going to be some of the best values in their class as they were designed to kind of hit the highpoints that the market is looking for and are going to be so popular chances are that the cost can be kept a bit lower.

Start in with premium options and more feature rich models and costs are going to jump with any product be it knives, cars, or flashlights.

I think a lot of people alluded to finding your price point of what works for you. Some people are comfortable beating up on $200 EDC knives and others prefer to keep them nice and beat on $30 knives. It comes down to picking what you like and deciding how much you are comfortable paying for it.

The problem I have is that I like nicer, well made items for daily use, but then don't want to beat them up.

Just $0.02 from a new guy though.
 
The original question was does greater price between similar knives mean better quality. The comparison given is Endura/Delica vs. Mannix. If you define quality by cutting ability, longevity, ease of maintenance, then I'd say you'll get just as good a knife with the Endura/Delica as you do with the Mannix. The cheaper knife will last just as long, be just as easy to use and just as easy to sharpen. Plus you get a trainer with the Endura. You could even say that about a more direct comparison...Endura vs. Military...VG-10 vs. SV30 isn't a concern and some would say lockback trumps the liner lock in stability.

Once you get beyond utility, more things influence a knife's price than just quality and material costs. That's why MSRP are instantly discounted 25% when they hit the internet and 50-70% when items are closed out. For some collectible knives, the price is determined by hype, number of knives made and collector frenzy. For martial blades, price is a factor of designer's name, "evil looks", conceability, fighting style, etc.
 
From the sound of all this my guess is that if you spend (street) $40 - $115 and buy one of the better brands you get a great knife in terms of quality and utility. It is probably unlikely in normal use they would let you down. Probably few of us get into survival situations where our lives depend on them and we need the ultimate knife (which should probably be a fixed blade for that purpose).

Seems like above that range you may be getting incremental improvements that do not increase as fast as the cost. Perhaps from there on up it comes down more to the enjoyment of having a knfe that is more special. Knives become very personal and a source of enjoyment beyond the utiltiy level.

Part of it is the vast choice and abundance we have. Give a guy in an impoverished 3rd world country a $20 - $30 name brand and he would probably cherish it.
 
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