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Tattler! ^
Prices losing touch with reality?
- Thread starter Cypress
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Sal Glesser
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Interesting thread.
First, I would like to thank those that came to our defense. I appreciate both your loyalty and knowledge, which is more than many about our company. We are quite unique in many areas, and that's why it's difficult to compare Spyderco to other companies.
As mentioned, we cover a broad price range and we have customers in the entire range. We try to give our customers what we think they will like. Some models have a smaller audience, either because of price or design. That doesn't stop us from offering our designs to those smaller audiences. They appreciate our efforts..
Knives like the Paysan, machined from a solid piece of Titan with very close tolerances, or the Drunken with it's spyder web liners, special texture and many years of the skill of the maker are specialty items to be sure. They are certainly difficult to make. That's why they cost more.
Sliceofaloha,
Thanx for trying to explain about Taiwan. I really like Taiwan. ( Gail and I do vacation in Kauai though ).
Fmont,
Painting Taiwan with such a broad brush is unfair and maybe a bit ignorant. But I will add that the maker is the guy, not the country. There are few in the world that can match our Taichung's plant for their quality and skill. The sample that you compared the Paysan to is really no comparison. Perhaps you need to learn more? Hang around here long enough and more will be apparent about Spyderco.
I will also say; It is not too much for the model, perhaps you just can't afford it? Which is ok. There are many things I might like that I just cannot afford, or justify the cost when I have responsibilities to others (like staff).
I will also say; Just because you cannot see the reason for the cost, doesn't mean it isn't there, it just means you can't see it.
No reason to close the thread, I believe it's civil.
sal
First, I would like to thank those that came to our defense. I appreciate both your loyalty and knowledge, which is more than many about our company. We are quite unique in many areas, and that's why it's difficult to compare Spyderco to other companies.
As mentioned, we cover a broad price range and we have customers in the entire range. We try to give our customers what we think they will like. Some models have a smaller audience, either because of price or design. That doesn't stop us from offering our designs to those smaller audiences. They appreciate our efforts..
Knives like the Paysan, machined from a solid piece of Titan with very close tolerances, or the Drunken with it's spyder web liners, special texture and many years of the skill of the maker are specialty items to be sure. They are certainly difficult to make. That's why they cost more.
Sliceofaloha,
Thanx for trying to explain about Taiwan. I really like Taiwan. ( Gail and I do vacation in Kauai though ).
Fmont,
Painting Taiwan with such a broad brush is unfair and maybe a bit ignorant. But I will add that the maker is the guy, not the country. There are few in the world that can match our Taichung's plant for their quality and skill. The sample that you compared the Paysan to is really no comparison. Perhaps you need to learn more? Hang around here long enough and more will be apparent about Spyderco.
I will also say; It is not too much for the model, perhaps you just can't afford it? Which is ok. There are many things I might like that I just cannot afford, or justify the cost when I have responsibilities to others (like staff).
I will also say; Just because you cannot see the reason for the cost, doesn't mean it isn't there, it just means you can't see it.
No reason to close the thread, I believe it's civil.
sal
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This is one of the quintessential elements which makes Spyderco, well, Spyderco. And it’s a beautiful thing.
And this is another element that makes Sal and Spyderco what they are. And it’s another beautiful thing.
Knife manufacturers in Taiwan started really stepping up their production quality (at least internationally) over 20 years ago, and have only continued to grow by leaps and bounds. My Taichung-produced Caribbean is better-made than any USA-made Benchmade, Buck, Case, Camillus (original), etc., knives that I own, and is at least on par with any of my Golden-made Spydercos.
This whole idea that a product is somehow inherently inferior because it's manufactured "in Asia" is obsolete. And "Asia" is a big continent, with many different countries and greater cultural diversity than Europe. I spent nearly a decade in Taiwan. How many people who feel Taiwanese industry is third-rate/third-world have actually lived there? The Taichung plant used by Spyderco can equal any US manufacturer in materials and workmanship. Maybe only CRK might exceed it.
Would the asking prices of those models be questioned if the exact same products and quality were being made for Spyderco in, say, Italy or Switzerland?
Jim
This whole idea that a product is somehow inherently inferior because it's manufactured "in Asia" is obsolete. And "Asia" is a big continent, with many different countries and greater cultural diversity than Europe. I spent nearly a decade in Taiwan. How many people who feel Taiwanese industry is third-rate/third-world have actually lived there? The Taichung plant used by Spyderco can equal any US manufacturer in materials and workmanship. Maybe only CRK might exceed it.
Would the asking prices of those models be questioned if the exact same products and quality were being made for Spyderco in, say, Italy or Switzerland?
Jim
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I was just joking around with the mod alert 
Honest thoughtful words and the patience of a saint, par for the course from Sal.
Honest thoughtful words and the patience of a saint, par for the course from Sal.
This is really what it comes down to, I think many people can't rationalize this and are determined to blame other factors (mainly Spyderco).
sharp_edge
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When the guy said "Taiwan production" he could mean low quality, which is wrong or low production.cost, which may not be wrong (as compared to the USA). Either way, I dont care. What I care is a forum/subforum that allows different voices/opinions.
I can afford these $400+ folders and I am sure many others can. But that does not mean I will not question whether they are worth my $$ and why or why not.
I can afford these $400+ folders and I am sure many others can. But that does not mean I will not question whether they are worth my $$ and why or why not.
These models, at these prices? Yes, they would definitely still be questioned, no matter where they were made at.
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Sal et al., I have absolutely no problem with in any way with Taiwan. My entire stance is cost based and it's cheaper to produce there, which is why I'm making the point they are Taiwanese folders. You outsource manufacturing in at least four countries so it's a simple matter of literal clarity. I'm a very well traveled individual, Taiwan is absolutely sure to be a "nicer" country than many I've visited. And they do produce really nice knives less expensively then were they made in the United States.
I wouldn't have a problem spending $500 on a folder I thought justified the price. The entire point is the Paysan doesn't illustrate any such value to apparently many people. I didn't realize until a few moments ago when I was googling the subject that this has come up before on your own forums.
If the value is hidden, as you allude to, I'd just have to take your word for it on faith. But I, personally, won't do that anymore than I will believe it's worth the price just because I'm flatly told so.
But I'm also not the type of knife owner who would own the same design in 20cv, M390, and 204p. I will admit that I don't entirely understand the collectors mindset when it comes to things like that. My business mind tells me that having essentially redundant skus is not good practice. But then again as I freely admit, I do not fully understand the mind of a collector. I never went in for baseball cards, or hot wheels, etc., as a kid, and I guess I still don't "get it." But apparently Spyderco does and knows how to create product line that appeals to individuals with the collector drive.
And there's nothing wrong with that. Perhaps the mindset is what I'm not understanding. It was not my supposition that the Paysan was priced as a transient -and thus rarified- collector. I was simply looking at it as a presumably well-built titanium framelock with an s90v blade.
I wouldn't have a problem spending $500 on a folder I thought justified the price. The entire point is the Paysan doesn't illustrate any such value to apparently many people. I didn't realize until a few moments ago when I was googling the subject that this has come up before on your own forums.
If the value is hidden, as you allude to, I'd just have to take your word for it on faith. But I, personally, won't do that anymore than I will believe it's worth the price just because I'm flatly told so.
But I'm also not the type of knife owner who would own the same design in 20cv, M390, and 204p. I will admit that I don't entirely understand the collectors mindset when it comes to things like that. My business mind tells me that having essentially redundant skus is not good practice. But then again as I freely admit, I do not fully understand the mind of a collector. I never went in for baseball cards, or hot wheels, etc., as a kid, and I guess I still don't "get it." But apparently Spyderco does and knows how to create product line that appeals to individuals with the collector drive.
And there's nothing wrong with that. Perhaps the mindset is what I'm not understanding. It was not my supposition that the Paysan was priced as a transient -and thus rarified- collector. I was simply looking at it as a presumably well-built titanium framelock with an s90v blade.
mwhich50
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Lol, Guilty. I complain, and compare restaurant prices to grocery store prices.
I am lucky enough to be able to take advantage of Spyderco's military discount program. I have recently purchased a Shaman, Pattada, and an Amalgum. I have found that the fit, and finish of Spyderco's knives are always outstanding.
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What do you think the price point should be?
For an brand new integral made of high end materials from a respected designer produced by a well known company.
No collector value attached.
Sal Glesser
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No problem Fmont,
I was trying to explain the "why", because I understand it and you don't. . Is it what it is. We have customers that do want and do purchase the higher end. Certainly not as often as the lower end. Way more fords out there than Aston Martins.
I would also like to say that to complain about the price without ever handling or seeing the knife is a bit strange to me. Some folks will pay high prices for art that others just don't see.
sal
I was trying to explain the "why", because I understand it and you don't. . Is it what it is. We have customers that do want and do purchase the higher end. Certainly not as often as the lower end. Way more fords out there than Aston Martins.
I would also like to say that to complain about the price without ever handling or seeing the knife is a bit strange to me. Some folks will pay high prices for art that others just don't see.
sal
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I only buy USA made knives and I for one appreciate Spyderco having a quality built product line of USA made knives at a reasonable price point. Please keep making a good quality knife line in the USA, thanks Spyderco! 
Personally, I myself have never spent over $200 on any knife other than CRKs, and I am not interested in these particular models. But clearly, there is a market for them, small as it may be. Luckily, as already mentioned by others, Spyderco has many models in virtually every price range. If those models were made here, at the same quality, the prices would be even higher.
Personal preferences in regards to knives and country of origin is perfectly understandable. I really like my US-made models, too. The reason for my above post was that some (or many) people still seem to equate overseas manufacturing (which for whatever reasons usually seems to mean 'Asia' lumped together) as being somehow inherently inferior to US manufacturing capabilities across the board in terms of quality, which simply isn't true.
Jim
Except most of the people citing the country of origin here were primarily doing so due to cost of manufacturing being cheaper there, it was not a comment on quality being inferior. You were essentially defending a point that was not under attack, heh.
ferider
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How do you know ? Including shipment, customs, etc. ? From https://www.numbeo.com:
- Consumer Prices in Denver, CO are 11.81% higher than in Taipei
- Groceries Prices in Denver, CO are 9.24% lower than in Taipei
Roland.
Honestly I will try to make a statement: I think that 90% of the educated community if they were able to afford would buy ALL the spyderco. Why? Seriously guys, they are amazing,every knife I have has a soul. Nobody would care to collect we knives ( some are...not amazing).
And here comes the problem: people are starting to getting angry because they are not any more able to afford them the way they were used to! They look at other companies and complain because in the end they would really want to buy spyderco.
So are prices today higher than before? YES otherwise we would not have all these discussions. I myself had to put a limit and I am unhappy with the continuous raising prices. But are they missing quality? Not at all. I am just so pissed off,but I do not blame them, I wish I could buy more.
Keep up the good work...and seriously: if they are selling at this level It means they have a market, otherwise they would not,they are smart and capable. Wish.I could buy more of their expensive models eheheheh
And here comes the problem: people are starting to getting angry because they are not any more able to afford them the way they were used to! They look at other companies and complain because in the end they would really want to buy spyderco.
So are prices today higher than before? YES otherwise we would not have all these discussions. I myself had to put a limit and I am unhappy with the continuous raising prices. But are they missing quality? Not at all. I am just so pissed off,but I do not blame them, I wish I could buy more.
Keep up the good work...and seriously: if they are selling at this level It means they have a market, otherwise they would not,they are smart and capable. Wish.I could buy more of their expensive models eheheheh
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I think 90% is a bit of a stretch even for "educated" folks. Buy the expensive models you seek. Just buy fewer knives. Happy Happy.
I don't think many modern knives have "souls" or at least they don't for me.
I can honestly tell you that I would not be standing in line for an $800 Spydie knife. Too rich for my blood.
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Today (yesterday now, I guess), I was carrying the Euroedge, a knife that is a tad expensive, but a cool design, which is why I got it in the first place. Made in Taichung, Taiwan.
As for Taiwan pricing and quality, if all you've seen is Taiwan stuff from the early 1990s, then you'll naturally be thinking "What the hell?" when you see the prices. However, when you hold the product (recent Taichung Spyderco knives), you can see and feel a vast difference from decades gone by.
But in the end it comes down to buy what you want; simple as that.
As for Taiwan pricing and quality, if all you've seen is Taiwan stuff from the early 1990s, then you'll naturally be thinking "What the hell?" when you see the prices. However, when you hold the product (recent Taichung Spyderco knives), you can see and feel a vast difference from decades gone by.
But in the end it comes down to buy what you want; simple as that.