primitive hunting ethics question

RescueRiley

RescueRiley

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Mar 22, 2006
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Not trying to start a flame war here...Just trying to get some honest thoughts from the folks..so before we get started if you can't say anything nice ...you know the rest

OK you are a trained, licensed, experienced hunter...you've honed your bushcraft skills as well to the point that you could confidently hunt SMALL game with low tech implementsbut would still only hunt within legal seasons, and uphold local bag limit requirements. Your state regs do not allow primitve hunting do you do it knowing you would never be caught where you hunt??

This of course is a hypothetical..I'm not Joe Hunter, but I do get out a couple times a year... I have never tried anything like this but I've thought about it, and I'm sure some others have too..Please..this is not the opportunity to make attacks on my or any one else's character that might respond..I know this is a touch subject but since it's fictional let's keep it civil Thanks. Looking forward to some interesting thoughts.
 
When you say SMALL game, do you mean, rabbits, squirrel, and guinea pigs?

I'd say I wouldn't do it. I try to follow the rules as my knowledge allows. Meaning if I know it's wrong I try not to do it. Except speeding.
 
Well man, you gotta practice somehow, as long as your harvesting your kill, I dont have any qualms about it.

And, I wouldnt do it all the time if their is legal issues, but eh...
 
Especially guinea pigs... LOL. Well Rocky that's where the Ethics comes in. because it not legal does that make it wrong?? Obviously we have laws for a reason but are right and wrong social constructs or products of individual choice? Personally I'm on the fence about this which is why I started the thread..I also think it's a good conversation piece
 
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If it's wrong only because some ignorant legislator passed a law saying its wrong, I would still do the primitive hunt. If it's wrong because it is morally wrong, I wouldn't do it. That's the basic difference between what the law defines as something that is malum prohibitum (wrong because the law says it is) and malum in se (wrong because it is morally wrong)
Both are illegal, but it is why they are illegal that makes them different.
 
I would imagine if they passed a law permitting primitive hunting it would be to hard to standardize and regulate implement requirements.
 
The only real answer here is that if you do it and do get caught, are you willing to pay the price. Morally I don't see a thing wrong with any humane method of taking legal game. I say Humane because if you are doing it for sport then laws of a humane kill would be necessary to me. In a emergency anything goes. I am a life long hunter.

There are very few laws that everyone would agree with. Where you draw the line will have to be your decision.
 
go2ndAmend said:
If it's wrong only because some ignorant legislator passed a law saying its wrong, I would still do the primitive hunt. If it's wrong because it is morally wrong, I wouldn't do it.
Click to expand...

Exactly :thumbup:

Obeying laws blindly is just outsourcing your common sense. But, of course in a situation like this, you'd have to be extra carefull that everything is done safely and ethically. Id give a lot of thought for endangered species in that area too. Well, this of course should be obvious in any kind of hunting.

I've never hunted primitively myself (if bowhunting doesnt count), but that's basically what I think.
 
RescueRiley said:
OK you are a trained, licensed, experienced hunter...you've honed your bushcraft skills as well to the point that you could confidently hunt SMALL game with low tech implements but would still only hunt within legal seasons, and uphold local bag limit requirements. Your state regs do not allow primitve hunting do you do it knowing you would never be caught where you hunt??

This of course is a hypothetical..I'm not Joe Hunter, but I do get out a couple times a year... I have never tried anything like this but I've thought about it, and I'm sure some others have too..Please..this is not the opportunity to make attacks on my or any one else's character that might respond..I know this is a touch subject but since it's fictional let's keep it civil Thanks. Looking forward to some interesting thoughts.
Click to expand...

OK, I am a licensed hunter and have been for a long time. I haven't hunted in a bunch of years except for some legal rabbit snaring, which is legal here with some conditions, but I have continued to keep my outdoors card and small game licence current.

If I wanted to hunt in a primitive fashion, in order to become proficient in this primitive fashion, and I knew I wouldn't get caught, I would definitely do so. At the same time, even though I didn't conform to the letter of the law, I would conform to the spirit, that is, I wouldn't take game out of season, the seasons are in place for a reason. I wouldn't exceed or even, probably approach the legal bag limit. All the while, of course, meeting my financial and qualifying requirements to be able to take that critter using the other approved methods.

In other words, I wouldn't be doing this to take game out of season, or to take illegal quantities of game. It would be done exclusively to further my knowledge of said techniques, and, of course, the game would be utilized in the proper manner.

PLEASE DO NOT CONSIDER THIS AS AN ENDORSEMENT TO DO THIS! This is my hypothetical position based on a hypothetical situation.

I'll give you a case in point. In this province, to legally snare rabbits (actually hares, as only Snowshoe Hares can be legally snared), you can only use brass or copper wire, 22 or 24 gauge. Also, although I haven't seen it in the regulations, a ministry official told me that any kind of lifting poles are illegal.

So here is the dilemma. If you want to test your ability to snare rabbits with self-manufactured plant fibre cordage, with which you would use some kind of lifting pole mechanism to keep the critter from chewing through it, you can't, legally. So how do you know you could make it work in a survival situtation, when you really need to? Well, the answer is obvious.

I hope I made myself clear. Just in case, I haven't, for the record, I detest poachers, both the kind that think the rules don't apply to them, so they can fill up their freezer, illegally, and it's nobody's business but theirs, and especially the types of POS that kill black bears for gall bladders, and the like.

RescueRiley has raised an contentious issue, here, and hopefully, I have expressed my opinion clearly. If any clarification is needed, please feel free to ask or email me if you prefer.

Doc
 
perhaps a better explanation of what your calling "Primitive hunting methods"
I hunt with a bow, atlatl, throwing sticks. The bow is legal, the atlatl is usually lumped in with the bow by legislature, and the throwing sticks made the game warden laugh until I came back with my limit in Bunny's.
 
I agree with Go2ndamd , ethics is really not part of obeying a prohibitive law where the law will change as you go down the road.
I would do it keeping in mind that practicing many survival or bushcraft skills are illegal some where.
 
bikermikearchery said:
... and the throwing sticks made the game warden laugh until I came back with my limit in Bunny's.
Click to expand...

Hahaha, that's pretty funny. :thumbup:

RR, I'm pretty much with everyone else on this as far as an ethical choice. If you 'feel' that the actual killing is pretty humane compared with other alternatives, and are conforming to other important points of the law (in season, etc), then I don't see a problem morally. You know you're doing it as a learning process and will make use of your kill.

Like Jim said though, be prepared to pay the piper if he comes knocking. I freaking hate dealing with the trail-bound thugs they call forest rangers.
 
I follow the laws. Don't always agree with them. I don't want to pay the penalty for NOT following them.

The wardens of the DNR here are terrific...from my point of view. In 20 years, only one was snotty, and he was so new, the store sticker was still on his ID. (I know, 'cuz I made him unbutton his jacket and take out his ID before I would surrender my shotgun to him, so he could verify steel shot at the duck pond. It was FREEZING out. :) )
 
i swing both ways on this one... i don't encourage you to go out and break the law and generally i try to stay within the, but i know from my past experiences there has been a few times that i have entered the bush and denied the world of one more rabbit, or porcupine, or maybe even a muskrat or squirrel... ( don't tell anyone)

As long as your harvesting the animals you could most likely get away with it.

On a related note...

I have finally received my Metis status (essentially i am now a white native American) so Harvesting rights are mine to us in Canada all year round.
 
Interesting stuff guys..
Doc, Very well put. I'm in agreement on the season bag limit issue
Biker mike.... I was thinking Throwing, Atlatl, Sling, etc
 
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