Primitive water treatment & purification?

JCavSD said:
Don't leave bottle water in the sun to disinfect unless you're sure it will get very very hot...or you'll create a petting zoo in the bottle. Bugs die in very hot water, but breed like crazy in warm water. Not all bacteria dies at the same temp either. 60 C seems very low.
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I believe it's the UV light that does the disinfection, not the temperature. (Technically, I think oxygen radicals formed by the uv interrupt cell metabolism, but that may be more info than folks need/want to know.) One of the nice things about it actually is that temperatures stay low enough that you don't have to worry much about chemicals from plastic containers being released into the water.

You have to use a clear bottle/box/bag, and the water should be prefiltered or presettled to cut down the turbidity. Recommended time is 6 hours.

Here's a link for more info: http://www.sodis.ch/index_EN


This will not remove chemical toxins, but if you have the time, the container, and the sun, it's hard to beat solar disinfection.
 
Chopchop is absolutely right. If you decide to use this method, place the water bottles over a corrugated steel roof (if your structure uses that type of roofing) or on top of a space blanket. This maximizes UV exposure.

As for pre-filtering, a primitive alternative is a three-bandanna filter. Three or four sticks forming a tepee to which three bandannas are tied, each at a different height. Fill the top bandanna with clean rocks, the middle with charcoal, and the lower with sand. This will help your commercial filter to last much longer.
 
chopchop said:
I believe it's the UV light that does the disinfection, not the temperature. (Technically, I think oxygen radicals formed by the uv interrupt cell metabolism, but that may be more info than folks need/want to know.)
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Right, UV will inactivate (neuter, not kill) bacteria, viruses, etc. at the correct wavelength(s). Makes a mess of their DNA so they can't breed. If the sun will cooperate and focus an intense beam of UV at the correct wavelength (UV 254 is what I'm familiar with) then you're good. The sun isn't going to do that for you, you'd need some sort of reactor to generate the required UV intensity.
 
A good way to pre filter the water before you boil it is to make a simple filter. Get a 2L bottle and cut the bottom off, then flip it around so the spout is facing downwards and the cut part is on top. Put the cap on and lay in about 1 1/2" sand, then 1 1/2" of charcoal from you camp fire, then finally about an 1 1/2" of moss and your set. When your ready take the cap off, and pour the sediment rich water into the top and let it filter through the 3 layers of materials, then into your pot to boil the water in. You still HAVE to boil the water, the filter will get rid of pretty much all sediment. Also let the first few seconds of water stream out onto the ground as it will be pretty dirty at first. If you combine the filter and boiling the water, you'll have a damn good setup for living off the land as 2L bottles are as easy to find as anything. Good luck bro!!!
 
Here's the UV system I use at work. You might want to go with something smaller. :)

UVReactor.jpg
 
Not trying to be disrespectful or anything of the like but I really don't think that UV is practical in the area of primitive water purification.

I do believe that trapping and containing rainwater holds some great possibilities. Also at this point I do believe that gravity--Carbon type water filters probably are the best method to start out with until one attains more primitive water treatment skills.

I've heard for years that sand and rocks both are your friends when it comes to purification. This is a subject I'm going to put a lot of priority on because I do believe that water is in the top 3 main priorities in any survival situation.

I'm going to scan some past magazines today and tonight on the subject. I do like the feedback I'm getting thus far. I'm still open to any input on the subject of primitive or basic water purification. >> JD
 
Are you going to be bouncing around the Ozarks backpacking/ camping or will you be somewhat stationary? This would make a big difference regarding water purification strategies.
 
JD Spydo said:
Not trying to be disrespectful or anything of the like but I really don't think that UV is practical in the area of primitive water purification.

I do believe that trapping and containing rainwater holds some great possibilities. Also at this point I do believe that gravity--Carbon type water filters probably are the best method to start out with until one attains more primitive water treatment skills.

I've heard for years that sand and rocks both are your friends when it comes to purification. This is a subject I'm going to put a lot of priority on because I do believe that water is in the top 3 main priorities in any survival situation.

I'm going to scan some past magazines today and tonight on the subject. I do like the feedback I'm getting thus far. I'm still open to any input on the subject of primitive or basic water purification. >> JD
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I agree, UV and primitive water treatment have nothing in common. But aren't those reactors cool? :)
 
JCavSD said:
Right, UV will inactivate (neuter, not kill) bacteria, viruses, etc. at the correct wavelength(s). Makes a mess of their DNA so they can't breed. If the sun will cooperate and focus an intense beam of UV at the correct wavelength (UV 254 is what I'm familiar with) then you're good. The sun isn't going to do that for you, you'd need some sort of reactor to generate the required UV intensity.
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Hi JCavSD,
I understand that UV-C (the spectrum you're working within) is the most germicidal of the three, but plastics found in bottles block this wavelength. I believe that SODIS relies on UV-A and UV-B, which apparently aren't effected by the plastics over many hrs of exposure. Whilst not as germicidal, they still do the trick apparently.
This is going from memory.
 
beef said:
Hi JCavSD,
I understand that UV-C (the spectrum you're working within) is the most germicidal of the three, but plastics found in bottles block this wavelength. I believe that SODIS relies on UV-A and UV-B, which apparently aren't effected by the plastics over many hrs of exposure. Whilst not as germicidal, they still do the trick apparently.
This is going from memory.
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Just read a few paragraphs about SODIS. Guess it works under the right conditions. I imagine that pre-filtering would be important to the process. Can't help worrying that leaving a bottle sitting out in the warm sun may turn it into a petting zoo.
 
SODIS is being aggressively taught around arid regions for water purification because it works extremely well, is easily taught to villagers with readily available containers. It takes very little UV from the sun to work, as the UV index has gotten much higher the last 10 years.
 
works extremely well
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Where are you getting your information?

I don't claim to know everything, but what I've been reading doesn't indicate it works extremely well. It's being promoted in third world countries because it's better than no water treatment at all, and that's the alternative. Based on the info I've been seeing, it seems that for those of us who have other alternatives SOTIS is not a great way to go.
 
Bushman5 said:
SODIS is being aggressively taught around arid regions for water purification because it works extremely well, is easily taught to villagers with readily available containers. It takes very little UV from the sun to work, as the UV index has gotten much higher the last 10 years.
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OK if UV can work in a simple or primitive type method wouldn't you have to have some type of bottle or magnifying type glass to create an intense UV environment? Or would just the simple rays of the sun be enough? I'm aware that some of the reverse osmosis systems use UV technology but I'm completely in the dark as to how to use UV rays in a setting with little access to tools and such.
 
Talk about "timely" :) I got to go to a Barnes & Noble yesterday. The newest issue of BACKWOODSHOME magazine was just released yesterday at the store near me and it has a great article on "water purification". This is extremely timely and I've only got to read through the article once but it has some great stuff in it I've never heard before.

BACKWOODSHOME is a great publication and the issues that have good articles are truly worth keeping for reference material. For those of you who are aware of BACKWOODSHOME magazine they have many great articles that can be used for survival and/or farm living. Hey folks this article is worth the $5 that they sell the magazine for alone.

Also I've made up my mind on the portable unit I spoke of earlier. I'm definitely going to get the MSR unit. It's made here in the states and parts appear to be much easier to obtain. But I'll still listen to those of you who have other suggestions because it will probably be 10 days to 2 weeks before I have the $$ to get it with.
 
JD Spydo said:
I'm completely in the dark as to how to use UV rays in a setting with little access to tools and such.
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There's plenty of info on the net. The idea is to put water in clear plastic bottles or bags and expose it to direct sunlight for six hours. That kills or cripples some of the germs in it and makes the water less likely to cause diarrhea (which is a major killer in third world countries) and widespread adoption could save a lot of lives, but it's not 100% sterilization.

Search keyword SODIS for more info.
 
Cougar Allen said:
There's plenty of info on the net. The idea is to put water in clear plastic bottles or bags and expose it to direct sunlight for six hours. That kills or cripples some of the germs in it and makes the water less likely to cause diarrhea (which is a major killer in third world countries) and widespread adoption could save a lot of lives, but it's not 100% sterilization.

Search keyword SODIS for more info.
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That's pretty timely "CA" because in this new BACKWOODSHOME magazine article I just posted about there is a section on water "disinfection" and the author goes into the process of UV and chemical disinfectants as well.

This recent BACKWOODSHOME article in the MAR/APR edition # 122 is the most comprehensive article I've ever seen in any magazine since I've been studying the subject of water purification. Apparently according to the article there is going to be a "Part 2" sequel to the article in the next edition of the BACKWOODSHOME.

The article goes into some vital information on the new MIOX disinfectant generator made by MSR that the one brother spoke of on an earlier post. The article is written by a chemist named Tim Thorstenson.

I will indeed also check out this source you've made reference to "CA" :)
 
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Well, just to humor my pet peeve, be cautious of any information or product that uses the term purification. Usually marketing BS or someone not familiar with water treatment. Disinfection and purification are not the same, and no product that any of us are likely to ever use will purify the water. That goes for warm bag water too. Oy!
 
JCavSD said:
Well, just to humor my pet peeve, be cautious of any information or product that uses the term purification. Usually marketing BS or someone not familiar with water treatment. Disinfection and purification are not the same, and no product that any of us are likely to ever use will purify the water. That goes for warm bag water too. Oy!
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That's why I started this thread. Because I have found so much conflicting information on making water safe to drink. The author of the BACKWOODSHOME magazine article does state that it is a very complex subject.

I do indeed appreciate your input telling us that purification and disinfection are indeed two totally different sectors and both should be approached with caution. The only method of water purification that I've encountered over the years that I truly thought did indeed purify the water was when I worked in a power plant some years ago. We had what called "deionized" water. That was the water that we used in the boiler tubes. Now I would drink it and it made excellent coffee and orange juice. Also I do think that distillation is a true form of water purification as well. Albeit there is a lot of bad talk about distillation because of the fact that it strips all of the minerals out of the water.

I just want to have a way to drink water to stay alive when tap water won't be available. And in this case the old cliche "There's More Than One Way To Skin A Cat" surely applies well on this subject.

But as critical as water is to essential survival I don't feel like it's something we should take lightly either. So I'm probably going to boil, disinfect, filter and do whatever it takes not to come down with any water borne ailment.

I'm very happy with all the input we have so far. I'm sure going to check into that MSR device as well as many others.
 
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