Prizes from Arms Show - khuks & kris

ddean

ddean

Joined
Mar 26, 2002
Messages
3,397
Picked up some nice trinkets
at the Arms show in Tulsa this weekend past.
:D YeeeeeHa

--Any-- info on the khuks or the kris would be appreciated.

======== Kothimoda ========
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/ddeanok/twachakardscu.JPG
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/ddeanok/twakothimoda.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/ddeanok/twakothimodabasethroat.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/ddeanok/twakothimodatips.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/ddeanok/twakothimodagrips.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/ddeanok/twakothimodagripsbutts.jpg
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/ddeanok/twachakardbutts.jpg

twakothimoda640.jpg

See notes in my follow-up post ( #7 )

======== Kris (Moro Sundang?) ========
big pic at http://pages.sbcglobal.net/ddeanok/twasundangcleansidebig.JPG
Big closeup of grip end: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/ddeanok/twasundangcleansideCU.JPG
Even bigger closeup of blade base:
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/ddeanok/twasundangbasecu-cu.JPG
twasundang640.jpg

See notes in my post follow-up ( #7 )

======== Small khuk ivory/horn stacked grip, & chakmas ========
twaivoryhornkhuk-5chakmas640.jpg

See notes in my follow-up post ( #7 )

~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<>call me 'Dean' :)-FYI-FWIW-IIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TIA-YW-GL-HH-HBD-IBSCUTWS-TWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links--A--T--H--D
 
Looks like you made a good couple snags there:)...except for that kris. That thing is obvious a fake and would make you look quite silly displaying a piece of garbage like that in your home......how 'bout you just shoot that to me here in IN and i'll take care of that for ya:D Seriously, where do you guys run across these keris?? I've been looking for an antique one for a little while. They all look swell to me:)

Jake
 
very nice grab, Dean.

the last pic looks like a school of karda fish....:D :eek:
 
===>Kothimoda:
Dui Chirra, double-groove pwankh, very thick spine.
15.95-oz,
15.5-in oal to the center of the pommel-cap,
16-in to the furthest point of the pommel-cap.
Embrossed decor not silver I'm sure.
Feels wrong for that.
Tin maybe, or NickelSilver of some version.
Embrossed design on stiff, thin metal.
Missing triangular piece of something on the front,
obvious empty spot down from the band of metal decor
at the throat; under the ring there (see small pic).
Looks like someone took the chakma or other karda & did some regrinding--
it has an edge, but there is no grind stop line at the base of the blade
as the other has.
Elderly seller said he had picked it up in a ?"estate sale" in England---
seems like he noted that it was while on leave during a war.
I should have listened better.
He sold it for a song;
especially after I asked if he could do any better on the price.
The more I handle it & look at detail, the better quality the piece appears.
In the rush to see lots at the show, I wasn't focusing well on detail;
so I was making an effort to err on the side of caution.

===>Kris:
No pamor / no obvious forge-welded grain.
13.4-oz
No scabbard.
The closer I look at the engraving, the more impressed I am.
It is very accurate & regular in depth & form.
I spent several hours carefully cleaning rust from one side of the blade.
Still need to polish.
The dark area on the mostly-clean side is pitting.
Edge has one flattened segment toward the tip,
& 3 nicks where it seems to have come edge to edge with another blade.
The metal at and on the handle seems to be aluminum,
again, I'm pretty sure -not- silver.
Frankly, I wasn't sure that this wasn't a tourist piece when I bought it;
so I really worked to get the price down under $50.
The more time I spend with it the more quality the blade seems.
I grin---:D

===>Small khuk:
Chiruwa tang thickness tapers toward the buttcap!,
with two peenings holding a flat brass plate.
No bolster.
Horn slabs on the bottom, ivory or bone on top.
Notice the lower profile of the grip, no ring, -almost- fingergroove.
Tiny khuk (11.5-in) seems very heavy in hand,
but weighs just 10.7-oz (less than 1-oz/in)
Stamping near the spine says
"TEMPERED STEEL" "MADE IN INDIA"
No other markings.
The most recent dealer had a sheath made to fit it,
although not in a traditional style AFAIK.
This is one I missed at the last show this past Spring.
A dealer bought it before I could return for it at the original booth.
The new dealer raised the sticker price by almost 3 times.
He cut that price in half at this show,
and I hesitantly offered him my original discounted sticker price from the first dealer.
! He took it !

===>Chakmas:
Looks like part of the Atlanta Cutlery lot,
I paid $8-$15 each for these since I could hand pick the ones I wanted.
In two trips to the booth I took 5 out of 10-12 available.
They had them labeled as 'unfinished antique knives from Nepal' :D

~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<>call me 'Dean' :)-FYI-FWIW-IIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TIA-YW-GL-HH-HBD-IBSCUTWS-TWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links--A--T--H--D
 
DD,
Excellent! The engraved metal gripped kukris are hard enough to find and even more so with matching kardas AND in kothimora regalia. The other bonus is the old style shaped handle. Length & weight?
Mine cost more like a symphony and is 19.5" and 1lb 14oz
kengraved.jpg
 
Dean, I can't tell you much about the kris, but I'd love to have a higher res picture. If it's not too much problem, could you email me one? If not, it's cool. Thanks,

Steve

sferguson2@triad.rr.com
 
Dayumed good snag Dean!!!!:D I couldn't go because there was a conflict with my/our time as Saturday night was a Sweatlodge night and we're usually too beat on Sunday too do anything.:grumpy:

But come April you're gonna have some competition by gollies!!!!:p

I love that Kothimoda!!!!:eek: :D :cool: :D
 
I am not an expert but the kris looks Pilipino rather than Indonesian or Malaysian. You might try posting a pic in the Asian forum for more information
 
John Powell said:
kothimoda........Length & weight?
Click to expand...
Added to info in post #7 above.

What period would this be?

What about the smaller khuk?


ferguson said:
kris..... I'd love to have a higher res picture.
Click to expand...
Added as links in post #1.

~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<>call me 'Dean' :)-FYI-FWIW-IIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TIA-YW-GL-HH-HBD-IBSCUTWS-TWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links--A--T--H--D
 
kamkazmoto said:
I am not an expert but the kris looks Pilipino rather than Indonesian or Malaysian.
Click to expand...
Kam, the designation "Moro Sword" says that it is Filipino.

The Moros were/(are?) very fierce warriors. They would wrap themselves in vines to help protect themselves from injury and, I've heard but don't know how true it is, drug themselves up on some kind of native potion and attack our troops in the islands in WW II.
That brought on the .45 calibre for the military as the .38 in use at the time just wasn't sufficient. A soldier would unload his pistol on a Moro and the Moro would still come at them and behead them with their Sundang as pictured here.
Take the last part with a grain of salt until it's confirmed by someone who knows more than me.;)
 
Yvsa, I'm no expert, but you're mostly right. This occured during the so-called Spanish-American war. After we defeated the Spanish in the Philippines, the Moro and others would not submit to our occupation. They hadn't been defeated by the Spanish, and felt (rightly so) that they were independant. We slaughtered them, as we did the Native American Indians. A shameful chapter in our history. I love my country, but we aren't always right.

I don't want this to get too off topic, so I will add that the Moro also used the barong, and the kampilan. Again Dean, very nice pieces!

Steve
 
ferguson said:
Yvsa, I'm no expert, but you're mostly right. This occured during the so-called Spanish-American war. After we defeated the Spanish in the Philippines, the Moro and others would not submit to our occupation.
I don't want this to get too off topic, so I will add that the Moro also used the barong, and the kampilan. Again Dean, very nice pieces!

Steve
Click to expand...
Thanks Steve, maybe I can remember that now. I know WW II and the 1911 didn't jive just right.:rolleyes: :o ;)
 
Right on about the kris. It is a Moro and it looks right. I would suggest that you carefully as possible remove the rust from the blade. No power tools please! If you could send me some higher rez pix, especially the area around the base of the blade with the pointy things (In Javanese terms called the "grenneng" where they base is offset and sticks out most. Also the other side "Kenbang kuchang" or elephant's nose) I can tell you more about the origin and authenticity.

I also can't make out whether the "ganja", smaller piece of metal at the base of the blade was made as a seperate piece (good) or as a part of the blade, (maybe not so good as an authentic piece, but there are other circumstances that still could make it a good one)

The baca-baca clamps are in place. This is good. these hold the ganja to the blade. Don't want to let the spirit out!

Does not look like a pattern welded blade, but that is OK, most of the Moro kris were not.

Or if you would like to double your money, I would take this off your hands in an instant. <grin> Keep it. Looks like a good one.

BTW it is rare to find scabbards anyway. These Moro kris were built for fighting. The scabbards were usually dropped when they went into battle.

My email will take up to 10 MB of pictures, so hi rez is good. abmarsh@gmail.com
 
Well done indeed Dean! A lovely metal handle, Royal Nepalese Armoury, Dui chirra, kothimara officers presentation kukri!

Very impresive! The best of that style Ive seen! Great matching kardas as well!

Congratulations!

Spiral
 
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but the Kris is from the past 50 years, most likely marketed as a high end tourist piece or fake antique. The telling feature is the sharp angle to the luks. A traditional kris will have graceful undulating waves that flow into the center spine. This is due to the fact that on traditional kris the waves are forged into the blade, versus the sharp angles that come from the waves being cut. Anways, I always feel somewhat mixed when I break this news. Because the craftsmanship on many modern pieces, albeit marketed for non-traditional consumption (eg. weapon of war), tends to be of extremely high quality. Blades are often of good temper, often even intricately inlayed, as well as bearing marvellous chase and repousse work.
 
Federico said:
Hate to be the bearer of bad news
but the Kris is from the past 50 years, most likely marketed as a high end tourist piece or fake antique. ........
...the craftsmanship on many modern pieces, .....tends to be of extremely high quality.
Click to expand...
Ah Well.........
I'm still happy with it,
a good first piece in the genre.
:D

I did wonder about the 'sharp' waves.

Good info always appreciated.
I'm here to learn.

It's still a nice blade I'll enjoy having.
And a good contrast if I get a 'real' one later.

Glad I was wary & talked the price down to my "it's a tourist" level.

~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<>call me 'Dean' :)-FYI-FWIW-IIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TIA-YW-GL-HH-HBD-IBSCUTWS-TWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links--A--T--H--D
 
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