Problem Solving Drill

[sgtmike88]

You're in a northern deciduous forest, it's winter, with temps ranging from -15 to 32 degrees F. Water is immediately available from small streams near your chosen campsite. Your supplies and survival kit have been lost, with the exception of your knife and a small BSA ferro rod which was attached to your zipper as a zipper pull. The weather is rapidly deteriorating and the outlook for immediate rescue is bleak. How are you going to purify and store your water?

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It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.

 

[Hoodoo]

Since you are in the north woods, birch bark should be handy. You can make fire with the knife and ferrocium rod and boil water in containers made from bark.

From a previous post: Boiling in bark containers is covered in Ellsworth Jaeger's book Wildwood Wisdom. He talks about making bark kettles as well as a whole bunch of other bark utensils. Good drawings. According to Jaeger: "There are two methods of boiling in a bark container. One way is to drop hot pebbles into the water until it boils; the other is to place the bark kettle, filled with water, directly upon a bed of coals. This may sound like a tall story, but it can be done, provided no flame touches the bark above the water line. It seems the water inside the bark utensil constantly absorbs the heat, thus preventing the bark from catching fire. In making the bark kettle, the outer surface should be smooth and entirely free of any projecting curls of bark. The water-filled bark kettle may be placed directly upon the coals, covering the fire all around it with ashes, so that no flame will lick up the kettle's sides."

John Rowland referred to a birch-bark rogan in his book Cache Lake Country that would be similar. He used it to survive a similar condition after his canoe spilled and he lost his gear.

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM



[This message has been edited by Hoodoo (edited 03-24-2001).]

 

[Doc Ron]

Depending on the location of that forest I probably wouldn't worry too much about purifying the water. Most of the illnesses related to water take days or weeks to manifest. If you (that's an editorial "You" meaning anyone) have spent much time in the wilds your body will have built up a tolerance to many of the badguys. Guardia etc. can take weeks to show up. All of that stuff has been in the waters since man learned to wash his butt.

FYI I drink unfiltered water from the streams and rivers regularily. Last summer we found a dead Elk rotting in the water upstream from where I was getting water. Never had a gurgle, though one student did have some camp displacemnt farts... (The kind that make you move camp)

The fire and shelter would be my main concerns for the first night. Unless you are in the untracked wastes of a time long past, you will find trash i.e. cans along the creeks eventually and these can be your cooking gear.

We regularily travel deep into the Frank Church wilderness and the students are required to make cook gear from trash we find. The same is true of the Sierra wilderness areas and many other places I've travelled.

Ron

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Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]

 

[Happy Camper]

I'd worry more about getting shelter from the deteriorating weather than worry about water purification. Only because I'd think hypothermia would kill me faster than any waterborne illness. After that, I'd resort to digging near the stream hoping the dirt filter ploy would be enough.

Doc, am I understanding correctly that if I expose myself to guardia I can become immune to its effects? (Always wondered how Mexicans can "drink the water" but we can't)

 

[Doc Ron]

Immunity is a big word. Technically we don't become immune to the Giardia but we become tolerant of it. At that point we can become carriers. It is an encysted parasite.

Dogs are a good example of this. Many dogs that spend a lot of time in the woods with their owners harbor giardia. If they get a mild enough touch for the first go around they get loose stools. Later with heavier and heavier exposures they don't actually react to the giardia but their owners can become infected from licks etc.

The infected person will "normally" naturally rid themselves of the infection in several days to a week. Folks with compromised immune systems will have a tougher time eliminating it or could die. Over time the immune system can toss it aside with few, if any, effects. You will still be able to share the gas that results from infection. I want to caustion you that this gas is not something you would be proud of and if released in a closed area, could cause death

There are a bunch of nasties in the water including ecoli bacteria and crypto. In the old days folks either built up a natural protection to the disease or died. Typhoid is one of the diseases that killed a lot of folks years ago.

In the days of the civil war more soldiers died as the result of "diahreah" (SP.) than from battle wounds. Two members of the Hood family died in that war as the result of bad water, six died from gunshot wounds. I think I inherited some of the ability to resist bad water. That comes partly from a lifetime of drinking nasty local waters.

Don't get me wrong, I've spent more than a few nights on my side spewing from both ends. Still... I'd always follow the rule of threes while deciding priorities.

I hope that helps.

Ron

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Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]

 

[sgtmike88]

Once I'm snuggled in and protected from the weather, I'm going to worry about water. I'll stick to purifying my water whenever feasibly possible, Ron. I prefer my mercury and pcb's treated or boiled. (laughing)

Thanks for the input guys!

BTW, I am including a l.e. style evidence bag in each of my kits for water storage, with potable aqua tabs for purification.

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It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.

 

[FF]

I "ditto" Doc Ron's position of not worrying too much about the bad boy's found in water... under the circumstances presented in this exercise. 4-5 days seems an ample time period to locate a helpful nurse and ask to be admitted into her domain(hospital), if necessary. The body does build immunities! I am interested in reading Hoodoo's references, and I will. Thanks.

Without specific experience along these lines, here is what I would do with the material's available. Material's available: clothes on my body, shoes, belt holding up my pants, knife, Kydex/plastic sheath with a hole in the bottom( I allow this since it is what I carry),a fire starter. Nothing else. ( thank's Sgt.Mike). I would start with a very,very strong positive attitued, under the circumstances. I have been in a situation similar to this in extremely cold weather. I did have more materials.

The shelter has been built, the fire is underway. Place a handfull of sand on a flat thin rock, both of which were gathered a little above the water edge at the stream. Place the rock with the sand on top into the fire's edge(level spot). Sanitize the sand( get it extremely hot). Any bad boys living in the sand will die the same as they will in boiling water. They Must have a moist enviroment to live in. Take a small log out of the fire...one that has burned to a charcoal stage. Let it cool,then wipe it down to get off the surface material. Crush the charcoal into small pieces, small enough to fit into the sheath. Mix the sand and charcoal together and place in the sheath. Pack firm but not tight using a flat long stick. At the water's edge, get a handfull of mud or clay ( whatever is available), squeese as much water out as possible( it will still be wet ). Place this substance into that shallow hole you fashioned into the sand over there..looks like a bowl impression. Press it into place, outlining the impression. The beauty of frigid weather is that everything freezes nice and tight ( including your hands). Let the mud/clay bowl freeze. Warm your hands at the fire station and then take the sheath( now a make-shift filter of sanitized sand and charcoal) to the water's edge. Sing a sexy song, keep a high attitued and get ready to drink some wet water. Take the frozen bowl out of the sand, dip it into the water. Poor the water into the sheath, place the bowl under the sheath, just below the hole in the sheath and hang on. While the water is filtering through, remind yourself that Betty crocker would be very proud of you!

Sand, charcoal, water, sheath,a knife, frigid weather, adequate shelter, warm fire, positive attitude. Will my filtration system work? I have no idea. But if filtration is paramount to drinking or not drinding water, I would try this knowing that if it failed, I could at least get to bed, say a little prayer that it does not go below -15f and try to have an enjoyable " wet dream." I am ready to learn, anyone else out there have ideas or real life experience? Go!

 

[Hoodoo]

Just a word of caution. Giardia can be lethal in some--and show no effects in others--and just cause nasty diarrhea in most. Also, those who are indigenous to areas where protozoan, fluke, and nematode parasites abound, are genetically better able to defend themselves. They apparently have high levels of immunoglobulins that others often have in short supply. Nevertheless, these types of parasites can be tenacious and some can end up as a friend for life even in natives with a long coevolved history with these types of parasites. And even Giardia can persist for years in some people.

Another nasty to consider is the tapeworm Echinococcus granulosus. This is a minute tapeworm that lives its adult life in dogs and in other canines (like the wolves on Isle Royale). Humans become infected by drinking contaminated water or by allowing dogs to lick their face or hands. Because dogs clean their anal area by licking, the tongue of an infected dog can carry tapeworm eggs. If a human swallows the eggs, the larva that hatches migrates into the tissues, especially the liver, and develops into what is called a metacestode in the form of a huge fluid-filled bladder. From the inner walls of the bladder grow smaller bladders, and within each of these are produced numerous hook-like structures called scoleces (sing=scolex; a scolex is the "head" of a tapeworm used for attachment). The whole structure is known as a hydatid cyst and may grow to the size of an orange or even a watermelon, and displace some of your favorite internal organs (like your brain).

Treatment is by surgical removal but rupture of a large hydatid cyst during surgery releases some nasty fluid that causes anaphylactic shock and often death. And small bladders may be released and dispersed in the body to continue growth at new sites. Sometimes this can be prevented by draining the bladder before operation and injecting silver nitrate to kill the contents of the hydatid cyst.

BTW, I used to drink from wild mountain streams and glacial lakes without purifying my water but not any more... I'm too yella.

Hydatid brain tumor pic here:
http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~parasite/echinococcus.html

Ron you might be safe from this one. I'm not sure if the distribution of this parasite extends into Idaho. A map of the distribution of this critter is here:
http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~parasite/distributions/hydatid_distribution.html



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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM

 

[Brian Jones]

FF,

Sounds like a great idea -- one caveat to add:

Try fidning a rock from a higher, drier elevation. Rocks near or in water tend to be laden with moisture that expands when heated, and can explode like a grenade, shrpanel and all. I have some friends who were doing a sweatlodge, when the heated rocks exploded. Several ended up in the hospital.

Peace,

Brian.

 

[FF]

Thank you, Brian. Without question, I will follow your advice on the rock!!

 

[Doc Ron]

Hoodoo...

I finally found the forum again! Whew..

I can't argue with your concerns. They are legitimate. Unless I was missing the point we were talking about a survival situation and in effect about priorities. Under the conditions of the situation I wouldn't be too concerned with water quality issues.

On the other hand the Forest service and State agencies here in Idaho spend a lot of money on water testing and try to identify potentially polluted sources of water. Granted the water may contain "showers" of contaminants, these bad boys tend to collect at the outlets of streams into lakes. So far we have been very fortunate.

Treating water is always a priority in other areas. In the Amazon the little catfish "candiru" will swim up your urethra and plug it... Nasty. There is so much to worry about beyond that, that it can take the joy out of the outdoor experience.

My concern is that there has been so much information about water pollution that folks become obsessive about their water treatment routines. This may be necessary in some areas but I get folks who want to boil, then chemically treat and finally filter their water!

BTW... Thanks for letting my know... I guess I'll stop French kissing my dog... Damn just when we were getting to know one another

Ron



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Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]

 

[Hoodoo]

Ron, does your wife know about the dawg?

You can bet if I was in a real survival situation, I would be drinking unpurified water if I couldn't get purified. And I see your point about "over purifying." Boiling is surely adequate for everything but organics.
Once back in the 70s I ended up in a high country swamp in the Montana Mission Mountains and I had forgotten to fill my freshwater bottle before I started the climb to this cozy bug-infested little site. The only water available was some pretty stagnant, nasty looking black swamp water to cook my rice with. With all the insect larvae floating in it, I realize this would be a nutrient broth to you (

) but at the time I was a little intimidated. This was in the days when I carried no water purification stuff and I never boiled either. But I boiled this stuff and...so far so good.

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM

 

[shadowfax]

unless you've been exposed in a big way to unpurified water (read: pretty much all you drink is unpurified stuff), drinking straight from a natural water source is insane. There are plenty of organisms in every natural water source on the planet that can easilly kill you. The diarrhea alone from some of them can dehydrate you faster than you can take water in. At the very least, water should be boiled before drinking. If you don't have your filters with you, you should make a sand/rock filter. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing. filter it first, then boil it for at least 10 minutes. Yeah, it's a royal pain to do all that, but it's oftentimes the difference between living and dying.