Problem with G-flex, wood, or me??

MarkJeffrey

MarkJeffrey

Joined
Nov 7, 2013
Messages
262
Twice now I have had ebony come apart from brass and copper after gluing up scales. I am roughing both parts with 80 grit, and cleaning with acetone. I've never had that happen with depot bought 5 minute epoxy.

I clamped copper liners to ebony scales yesterday, in the house where it is warmer, and today I gave one a tug and it came right off. Now.. I did have to clamp them a tad tighter than usual to make sure all parts of the copper touched and it's almost like there is nothing left between them. Would it allll squeeze out THAT easy? Im just not used to the stuff I guess, but I've never heard anything bad about it. Only my own experiences so far.

Should I use something different on the ebony?
 
were you going to pin the scales together for mechanical fastening?
I spread my epoxy on a 4" strip of duct tape, that way I can confirm the epoxy I mixed up did in fact setup.

I don't any experience with G/Flex although I have a new box waiting to be used.
I've moved to cleaning with rubbing alcohol.

maybe dimple the surface with a drill point to increase the surface area?
mill a dovetail in?
 
I don't use acetone to clean before gluing because it leaves it's own film that is bad for adhesion. I, like H, have switched to using alcohol which evaporates completely. It's another good suggestion to dimple. I dimple everything that gets glued to a metal. G10 to the blade, dimple. Wood to copper, dimple the wood. Just small dimples with a spot drill. This helps prevent squeezing all the adhesive out, but it can make cleaning a pain. Usually I end up with a tooth brush in alcohol to get them cleaned out.

And copper from everything I can tell or have tried, just sucks for adhesion anyway. Different epoxies, CA glue, it will bond, just not like wood:wood or G10:wood or G10:steel.
 
Mix well epoxy, clean and holes ...... holes...many holes :)

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kuraki said:
I don't use acetone to clean before gluing because it leaves it's own film that is bad for adhesion. I, like H, have switched to using alcohol which evaporates completely. It's another good suggestion to dimple. I dimple everything that gets glued to a metal. G10 to the blade, dimple. Wood to copper, dimple the wood. Just small dimples with a spot drill. This helps prevent squeezing all the adhesive out, but it can make cleaning a pain. Usually I end up with a tooth brush in alcohol to get them cleaned out.

And copper from everything I can tell or have tried, just sucks for adhesion anyway. Different epoxies, CA glue, it will bond, just not like wood:wood or G10:wood or G10:steel.
Click to expand...

First I clean with pure acetone and next with alcohol , and till now I have not problem ......
 
nice knife natlek ! i love blue. those glue hole rivets help. mark, i think you probably did squeeze almost all the glue out. only clamp as haRd as you can squeeze with your fingers. find another way to get the copper flat/touching before gluing and you should be ok.
 
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MarkJeffrey said:
Twice now I have had ebony come apart from brass and copper after gluing up scales. I am roughing both parts with 80 grit, and cleaning with acetone. I've never had that happen with depot bought 5 minute epoxy.

I clamped copper liners to ebony scales yesterday, in the house where it is warmer, and today I gave one a tug and it came right off. Now.. I did have to clamp them a tad tighter than usual to make sure all parts of the copper touched and it's almost like there is nothing left between them. Would it allll squeeze out THAT easy? Im just not used to the stuff I guess, but I've never heard anything bad about it. Only my own experiences so far.

Should I use something different on the ebony?
Click to expand...

When I use wood for scale I leave the epoxy to stand for ten minutes on a scale to soak in wood or till then epoxy become clear .When you mix epoxy is white ,that is air trapped in ........not good .Long time /24 hour/ curing epoxy is best for handle if you ask me .
 
MarkJeffrey said:
Twice now I have had ebony come apart from brass and copper after gluing up scales. I am roughing both parts with 80 grit, and cleaning with acetone. I've never had that happen with depot bought 5 minute epoxy.

, and today I gave one a tug and it came right off. Now.. I did have to clamp them a tad tighter than usual to make sure all parts of the copper touched and it's almost like there is nothing left between them. Would it all squeeze out THAT easy? I'm just not used to the stuff I guess, but I've never heard anything bad about it. Only my own experiences so far.

Should I use something different on the ebony?
Click to expand...

Do some tests

Glue by itself, does it harden
Does it stick to "normal " dry wood like spruce or maple
Ebony - glue scraps together and see if it holds.


I clamped copper liners to ebony scales yesterday, in the house where it is warmer
Click to expand...

How long between the time you brought inside (from the cold ?)
to the time you glued ?

A day, hour or minute?
The condensation that may have formed would interfere with glue.


What's the source of the brass.copper?
Is it new material, or was it an oil impregnated bearing before you got it ?
 
HSC /// said:
were you going to pin the scales together for mechanical fastening?
I spread my epoxy on a 4" strip of duct tape, that way I can confirm the epoxy I mixed up did in fact setup.

I don't any experience with G/Flex although I have a new box waiting to be used.
I've moved to cleaning with rubbing alcohol.

maybe dimple the surface with a drill point to increase the surface area?
mill a dovetail in?
Click to expand...

I will try dimpling and alcohol, these scales wont be pinned they are for a razor
 
12345678910 said:
Do some tests

Glue by itself, does it harden
Does it stick to "normal " dry wood like spruce or maple
Ebony - glue scraps together and see if it holds.




How long between the time you brought inside (from the cold ?)
to the time you glued ?

A day, hour or minute?
The condensation that may have formed would interfere with glue.


What's the source of the brass.copper?
Is it new material, or was it an oil impregnated bearing before you got it ?
Click to expand...

I keep the epoxy in the house, nothing was cold when it was glued. The copper is from a large sheet I got from a friend, it's old but never used, and I sanded it clean with 80
 
I should clarify, I've used the G-flex without problems, I've only had problems gluing ebony to brass or copper, also g-10 liner on a scale had failed on me.


john april said:
nice knife natlek ! i love blue. those glue hole rivets help. mark, i think you probably did squeeze almost all the glue out. only clamp as haRd as you can squeeze with your fingers. find another way to get the copper flat/touching before gluing and you should be ok.
Click to expand...

I will try again with less pressure, it's pretty flat and its thin, I just wanted to make sure it would be a tight fit I didn't realize it could completely squeeze out so easily
 
Like some of the others...I'd ditch the acetone. It does leave a film behind and it might not affect all materials but it certainly could affect some.
 
I second the holes in the handle material. I usually go slightly through the liners into the main scale. Kind of extra security on the liners. I haven't ever used a quicker CA glue to attach liners, but I thought, if I did, the drilling through them and use of epoxy would add insurance.

I usually always have some extra epoxy left over. Most of the time I just leave it in the little Dixie cup with the stir stick. At this point, I know what set up epoxy should look like. Also, a little tip for mixing epoxy or things that need to be mixed exactly, like Brownelle's Acraglass. I use the little(Dixie cup size) red plastic Solo cups and a cheap little digital scale for reloading ammo. Set the cup on the scale and press the "tare" button and that will zero it out. Then add have as much epoxy as you need. Input the number into a calculator and hit X 2, if it's a two part epoxy. Then fill the cup with the second epoxy until you reach the number on the calculator. Since you seem to be having issues with the epoxy this could just be a method to exclude improper mixture from the equation.

Good luck.
 
Could it be that you're overheating the liners when grinding? Copper and brass can heat up fast and transfer heat more efficiently than steel.
 
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