Problems at airports with Dragonfly?

C

cardimon

Joined
Sep 20, 2000
Messages
1,539
I read elsewhere in these forums that someone had their Dragonfly PERMANENTLY confiscated by London's Gatwick airport security because it looked, and I quote the message, "really scary."

Has anyone else had similar experiences?

I was going to get one for flying because I thought it did not look threatening. But now...
 
The U.K. is another story, but here in the good old U.S. of A. your Dragonfly will make it through airports just fine, so long as it's plain edge.

------------------
Dave

Let no one ever from henceforth say one word in any way countenancing war. It is dangerous even to speak of how here and there the individual may gain some hardship of soul by it. For war is hell, and those who institute it are criminals. Siegfried Loraine Sassoon
 
In the UK you can not take ANY knife on to a plane on your person or in your hand luggage. Can only be taken if placed in main luggage that is taken from you and stowed away. There are many things that leagally can't be taken on to planes here. Would suggest checking before travelling.
Safe travels
Steve

[This message has been edited by Steve Drayton (edited 12-21-2000).]
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Steve Drayton:
In the UK you can not take ANY knife on to a plane on your person or in your hand luggage.
</font>
Click to expand...

I think that's going a little bit too far. If there's an accident and good little knife is called for to save lives, cut seat belts, or pry out oxygen masks, passengers are supposed to do...what, exactly?

 
Chew real fast, I suppose
smile.gif


I'm flying overseas next year, and planned on carrying my sts Dragonfly on my person. Guess I better start checking laws.

[This message has been edited by OwenM (edited 12-22-2000).]
 
I own two "Dragonfly's". When we go to Switzerland I usually have the Zytel model in my pocket. I NEVER carry the carbon fiber model on overseas flights. I want to take NO chances on getting the carbon fiber Dragonfly confiscated by an overzelous airport employee. Also, in my carry-on bag there is always one of those small size Leatherman pocket tools. There is a small blade on it, however nobody has ever said anything about it. I also take a large Openel folder for cutting cheese, but I always have it in my checked stuff. Oh, I almost forgot. In my watch pocket, there is ALWAYS a Victorinox Execuitive with a Photon Microlite attached to the ring. I once was stopped at the Xray machine when my carry-on bag was going through. I knew that it just couldn't be because of a knife! It was my stainless steel flask that was full of Cognac. (Purely for emergencies like snake bites, you know.
smile.gif
)
On one trip, after the Lockerby terrorist bomb that sent the Pan-AM 747 down, my inlaws were preparing to depart from Kennedy on their way to Europe. There was a huge sign on the wall at the gate which had a hand holding a small Swiss Army Knife, you know the kind. One of the little ones that have a very small blade and a can opener? Well, the sign read, "If you have a knife THIS big on your person, it must be checked with your luggage". That year the inspectors even looked under my father in law's hat as he was boarding. He didn't care. He was just happy they were being so careful.

Will



[This message has been edited by Will.223 (edited 12-31-2000).]
 
Actually, I have a fundamental problem with this trend towards zero-tolerance enforcement of ever more overzealous laws -- they're trying to present a tough image, but doing it by picking on the easy (and wrong) targets. This is not "being so careful", this is more like the proverbial guy looking for his keys under the lamppost because that's were the light is best, rather than looking where he actually dropped them.

Remember, the cause of the Lockerby bombing was not that bombs were openly and cheerfully allowed on airplanes, it was that an existing "no bombs allowed" law (quite a reasonable thing to have for airline flights) wasn't adequately enforced.

Taking SAKs away from people doesn't make the flight any safer, it just gives the government/airlines a cheap, ineffectual, way to appear to be doing something about a much publicized problem, at the expense of chipping away a little more at people's personal freedoms.

A Spyderco Dragonfly ought to be cheerfully passed through an airline's security check as being an obvious utility tool that poses no real threat to the safety of the plane or its passengers. Anybody fool enough to try to hijack an airliner with a Dragonfly should be punched repeatedly in the face by a nearby passenger, and then arrested upon landing.

Ha, but that's just my $0.02...

To get back more on the original topic: I haven't flown in quite a while, but I have been through the security checkpoint in San Diego's Lindbergh airport fairly often to pick up / drop off friends. For the past few years, my standard airport carry has been a small Sebenza, which I put in the change bowl, along with my wallet, key cases, Micra, cell phone, and PalmPilot. They don't bother at all with the Sebenza, though they do want me to turn on the PalmPilot and cell phone to prove that they aren't bombs (which seems lame -- they're not big enough to do much, but on the other hand, one could always rig just enough electronics inside to put up a static picture on the screen, so their test seems pretty pointless). I rather strongly suspect that, for this airport, either my zytel or CF Dragonfly (both plain edged) would draw little more attention than the Sebenza.

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Carl /\/\/\ AKTI #A000921 /\/\/\ San Diego, California

Think this through with me ... Let me know your mind
Wo-oah, what I want to know ... is are you kind?
-- Hunter/Garcia, "Uncle John's Band"
 
On several recent flights (all inside the States) I've had my plain-edge SS Dragonfly opened and the blade checked by security. On the last such occasion, I asked "What exactly is it that you look for when you look at the blade?"

The security officer (an approximately 60 year old female that maybe weighed 110 pounds) said she was looking for "one of those jagged blades".

That's why I carry the plain-edge Dragonfly (or now my Wegner Mouse)on my person and my larger serrated Spydies go into my checked luggage.
 
After having made a number of trips with it in my brief case, Serial No.25 Dragon Fly was taken from me at the Atlanta airport. No serrations allowed.
 
Sorry 'bout your knife Steve. I'll see what I can do.

On the humerous (knowledgable) side; everyone knows that if you take swiss army knives away from travelers, planes won't blow up.

I was once harrassed in London for being an American by one in favor of banning all "weapons". "In America, you people shoot each other". (sometimes true, and sad, but IMHO, the solution is not a law). My response was, "at least we aim, you people in the UK just blow each other up indiscrimately". Had I thought about it, I probably would have kept my mouth closed. But that was his true belief.

On the reality side. "No one wants to look the fool. Everyone tries to do the best they can...if they knew better, they'd do better"

BTW, I would have to guess that Spyderco is responsible for the "jagged edges" fear syndrome since we introduced teeth on folders. I would also like to say that Steven Dick was the first writer to notice and write an article about a Spyderco knife. It was about our Mariner (with teeth).

sal

[This message has been edited by Sal Glesser (edited 12-30-2000).]
 
This thread seems especially relevant now with the recent news of that crazy idiot who entered the pilots' cabin and tried to drive the BA 747(to Nairobi)down and kill himself and everyone aboard.

Seems that he went in to the cabin, locked it behind him and wrestled the controls away from the pilots and made the plane go crazy. A bit longer and he would have put it upside down...it's supposed to be finished then, right?

I'll bet all those people who were trying to subdue him would have been real pleased had they had a leeetle dragonfly on them to help them out a bit.

I've gone through Heathrow at least 10 times, in the mid 80s, when I was a mature student. I carried a generic balisong(I did not know of Spyderco at that time, for shame)and it always went with my checked-in luggage. The one time I forgot to put it in my luggage, I declared it to the security and they very politely took it and returned it to me at the end of my journey.

Other than being body-searched abt six times there and having a few racial remarks directed at me(I'm chinese, ex-LEO),that was abt it.

The British have a tough time with people who want to take responsibility for their own self-defence. They always want to be mentally reassured by having you disarmed, never mind if you become a victim later.

That's why there is an old French saying:

"THE SUN NEVER SETS ON THE BRITISH EMPIRE, BECAUSE GOD DOESN'T TRUST AN ENGLISHMAN IN THE DARK."

 
It never ceases to amaze me when I try and contemplate the exact reason why airport personel would object so vehemently to a small Spyderco with a serrated blade. (Even a Cricket!?!) Sometimes I've wondered if they seem to think you can saw a hole in the cabin or some other such nonsense.

Mystified,
Will

------------------
Mendacity is the
system we live in.
 
Jagged edges?!?! Serrated blades?!?!

Oh, like the ones of those non metallic/ non ferrous/ non magnetic/ non conductive/ non corrosive/ hi tech space age... plastic food knives the airlines provide??
biggrin.gif


L8r,
Nakano

[This message has been edited by Nakano 2 (edited 12-31-2000).]
 
While I agree with most of what you Guy's are saying, imagine the consequence of that nutter with a blade. How many of the people on that flight would have died? I know you can't legislate for every incident and I know the good guy’s and the sane only adhere to the law. You can bet you life that the people on that flight and their families are glad that he didn't have a small blade. One question, what is the likelihood of surviving an air accident and being in a fit state to use a knife to help yourself or others?
I believe that everyone has the right to defend themselves but there are particular environments were risks need to kept to the absolute minimum. This being one.
 
Hi Steve. While there is much merit to what you say, may I play devil's adocate for the purposes of discussion?

What would have happened if the Pilot or the stewardess had a small serrated Cricket or Dragonfly?

What would have happened if everyone on the plane had a serrated Navigator or even Ladybug?

I quite agree that these models are really too small to perform a lethal stabbing, but they can certainly redirect a would be hijacker.

Just some thoughts to share.

sal
 
Hi Sal There is no doubt that an individual with a little training and a load of backbone could turn a situation around. As a student of Bram's I have an understanding of small blades can do. I personally carry a Delica on a daily basis and own a Gunting, don't carry it as wouldn’t want it confiscated by the Old Bill (police).
However I am in the minority in this country. I think that as others have indicated on this subject it's a cultural thing with the British. (I'm an Aussie that lives in the UK) This leaves the question how would the pilot have reacted if he had been cut? Worse still what if he died as result, how would his colleagues reacted. Those 747 carry a lot of people. It would be fine for law abiding, sane individual to take a small folder on to a flight. Unfortunately there are those in our society who are neither. Is it worth the risk of in the worst case scenario of 200 odd people losing their lives because of one nutter. What is the chance of someone being willing to intervene? I'm sure on this forum the be quite a few that would. These events aren't planned, would we react quickly enough? When should we react to me the questions go on and on. Is it worth the risk? We will all have our opinions on that but for me on large aircraft that carry hundreds of people I'll be happy to put folders in my luggage for my safety and of my fellow travellers

Steve
ps Sal thanks for providing such great products
 
Well, there seems to be a parallel here. As with any legislation to strictly forbid any edged implements on airlines, like in prisons, there will *ALWAYS* be some way for a "nutter" to sneak one on board regardless of the amount of security. This is the same old crap that legislators do to the legitimate gun owner issue. BS in my opinion.

Here' s something to ponder. About a year ago, local news reported that according to the black box findings, a pilot of a Mid East airline alledgedly committed suicide (therefore homocide with the precence of passengers) by downing his own plane! Is it not concieveable that said pilot had homocide on his mind as well? And could HE, the unquestionable commander of his plane, go by security with a blade? A gun? A bomb? ... Yes, new laws indeed.

L8r,
Nakano

 
With all this nonsense about the little Hitlers running airport security, I am getting more a little fed up. And people seem very willing to give up ALL their freedom in exchange for the illusory feeling of security. What's up with that? Did our forefathers teach us nothing?

My wife and I are planning to fly to England for our 10th anniversary. We are also investigating taking a ship over there, attempting to bypass ridiculous, subjective laws.

I gave my wife the very first Swiss Army knife I ever received as a gift. She was travelling to Canada on business and I wanted her to have it. She thanked me but declined because she was AFRAID airport security would confiscate it. Me, I'd cause an international incident. If you want to expose something, drag it into the light of day. I'm just about 40 now, and my ability to tolerate foolishness has just about evaporated. So my wife went on her trip - knifeless. Very sad.
 
Well friends on this particular subject I think we will have to agree to disagree. Some fundamental principals involved, which we won’t change our opinions on. I’m always willing to listen though. Cardimon check out British law about knives before your visit. It’s not just at airports here that the laws are draconian. Would be advised not to carry any folder with a blade over three inches as a daily carry. Enjoy your trip, it is a great place to visit.
Bottom line is, despite what we think the British government in not going to the law.
Steve
 
Sorry to prolong this thread, but I just wish to say again, those "nutters" will always be the ones carrying weapons when the law says you can't carry here or there.

Criminals with criminal intentions will ALWAYS carry weapons, whatever the law says.

This is a "constant".

The "variable" in the equation is whether you are ready to ignore ineffective and poorly thought-out laws and carry a weapon/tool to negate the "unfairness" of the situation.

What if the "nutter" had somehow managed to bring aboard a knife? And everyone else is law-abiding and doesn't make the effort to carry onboard?

The outcome might have been very different.

You cannot rely on anyone else to save you or your loved ones when things go "wrong". Even courage is not enough. You must be PREPARED.

The police and authorities are not going to cry at YOUR funeral. So don't let their stupidity and selfishness stop you from taking responsibility for your safety and the safety of your loved ones.

As for knives:

Besides being useful tools, I have always thought of knives as a weapons of self-defence, not "offence". This is because I believe that it is easier for an untrained person to kill a lot of people with a firearm, as against using a knife.

All people should carry knives, esp the ladies.
 
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