Problems at airports with Dragonfly?

SYK, can I say again that I agree with a lot of the things you are saying. However in my humble opinion it’s about minimising risk. I know that there is a possibility that security will fail but it ‘s about minimising risk. To me the lives of the passengers and crew are worth this (and mine of course). Anyway as I said the British government is not going to change the law and fundamental principals are involved. Let’s agree to disagree.

Steve
 
Yes, I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree. If the issue were truly about minimising risk, then all passengers would happily submit to being buckled into straitjackets for the duration of the flight, eliminating any possibility of harmful or dangerous action on their part, as well as giving them the calm assurance that all the other passengers were similarly rendered harmless. Sure, it would be uncomfortable and inconvenient, but then, any measure is justified if it furthers the cause of safety, right? Criminals will continue to do bad things, and will continue to ignore the laws as they do so. Taking additional liberties away from non-criminals won't help the situation.

A Dragonfly, whether serrated or plain, in the hands of a determined attacker does not offer substantially more threat than, say, a stainless steel fountain pen -- to minimize risk, would you support taking all pens away from passengers in the quest for safety? Or is removing knives from the scene more acceptable because of what they represent to most people? And I'm not discounting the fact that a Dragonfly is capable of doing substantial damage, but rather pointing out that a wide variety of other common objects can be used for mayhem if one is really of a mind to do so. You cannot transform the world into a safe place by (temporarily or permanently) locking up all the pointy objects.

That said, I'll stop arguing the point, and agree to disagree...

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Carl /\/\/\ AKTI #A000921 /\/\/\ San Diego, California

Think this through with me ... Let me know your mind
Wo-oah, what I want to know ... is are you kind?
-- Hunter/Garcia, "Uncle John's Band"
 
I would like to add a side note to the Dragon Fly I lost in Atlanta. I had two knives in my briefcase, the serrated Dragon Fly and a French folder with a straight edge blade about 3 3/4-inches long. They let me keep the larger knife as it was the serrations they objected to!
 
That problem they have with serrations at airports... It's a sheeple thing, I wouldn't understand...

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"Though the meek shall inherit the Earth, they won't keep it past Saturday night..."
 
Honestly, when talking about the apparent danger of tiny folding knives on an airplane in the hands of a deranged, suicidal lunatic (hypothetical), a person intent on rushing into the cabin and bringing down a plane could easily kill people with the steel forks they give you with the food. Even a regular pen or pencil through the eye. These are probably even more probable, since it seems relatively few people carry pocketknives, but everyone carries a writing instrument.

The most I've traveled with by plane is an SAK. Even a very little SAK scares some people. I remember one time a woman saw me cutting paper with the scissors on my little Victorinox Classic and she said, in an uppity voice, "I'll have you know you are brandishing a lethal weapon!" (this was not on a plane). This knife is the LEAST threatening of any knife I know of. So to some people, a Dragonfly may seem like something out of "Friday the 13th" or "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" movies, even though to us it's a very non-threatening, utilitarian design.

Sometimes if you explain to such sheeple the possible life-saving benefits of having a good knife available (rescue from seatbelts, stuck clothing, etc.), they just don't get it. One person told me she'd never, ever carry a knife, and if she had to, she'd use her hands to free herself from a jammed seatbelt if her car was on fire (I believe many people have died trying to do just that). Her statement really struck home to me the depths to which irrationality and ignorance (stupidity?) runs in the rabidly anti-knife types.
Jim
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sal Glesser:
Hi Steve. While there is much merit to what you say, may I play devil's adocate for the purposes of discussion?

What would have happened if the Pilot or the stewardess had a small serrated Cricket or Dragonfly?

What would have happened if everyone on the plane had a serrated Navigator or even Ladybug?</font>
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Sal, what if the hijacker, who apparently had locked the door to the pilots' cabin behind him, had had the serrated Dragon Fly? Had that plane gone down?
This is probably the best place and thread with a suitable audience to enter a thought like you gave, but that can be turned around so easily. If you think that somebody with DragonFly could have stopped the hijacker, then you are also saying that the hijacker with a Dragon Fly could have defeated the pilots. Of course you guys are now going to write that give a larger weapons for the pilots... that it the way it goes here (or should I say there
wink.gif
). Sometimes I think that you guys are as blind as "the other side".
After saying all this, I somehow feel that I need to say that I do not support any zero-tolerance things. Not in planes, not anywhere else. I will always carry a SAK (SwissChamp) with me to a plane (it's in the carry on luggage, I not trying to hide it), but that's about all I need with me during a flight. Other knives, if needed, are in the ckecked luggage. I don't see any problems with that.

Hugo.
 
Hi Hugo. Anything can be turned around. The point is the absurdity of the rule. A steel knife served with a meal in first class could be a weapon. A sharp pencil is more dangerous than a dragonfly. a 16 penny nail, etc.etc. Did the Captain have any martial arts training? etc. etc. Did the "bad guy" have any?

My solution in a plane is laughing gas in the public air supply activated by a hidden switch, and the Captain gets oxygen in his supply.

Given 200 people on a plane with a "nutter" trying to bring down the plane, I would still bet that some of the 200 people would do something to save themselves.

sal
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Steve Drayton:
Cardimon check out British law about knives before your visit. It’s not just at airports here that the laws are draconian. Would be advised not to carry any folder with a blade over three inches as a daily carry. Enjoy your trip, it is a great place to visit.
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Good point. Where should I go to find what the British laws are regarding pocket knives?

When we flew to London for our honeymoon in 1991, I carried a Schrade Old-Timer without any problems. Now I carry a Leatherman Wave and a Victorinox Craftsman. Maybe I should dust off the Old-Timer for our next trip across The Pond!

 
hugo, the problem with your assumption is that there is only one hijacker, but there are many people who do not want the plane to crash.

a blade would be an advantage for either side, but the good guys had the advantage in numbers.
 
Steel knives in first class? I thought most were plastic. Shows how much I fly first class.
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But they' re still "toothy". Well, there you go. See my first reply.

L8r,
Nakano
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nakano 2:
Steel knives in first class? I thought most were plastic. Shows how much I fly first class.
smile.gif
But they' re still "toothy". Well, there you go. See my first reply.

L8r,
Nakano</font>
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IIRC, American Airlines provides steel (well, metal anyway) knives and forks with your meals even in cattle car (a.k.a. coach).



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Dave

Let no one ever from henceforth say one word in any way countenancing war. It is dangerous even to speak of how here and there the individual may gain some hardship of soul by it. For war is hell, and those who institute it are criminals. Siegfried Loraine Sassoon
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sal Glesser:
My solution in a plane is laughing gas in the public air supply activated by a hidden switch, and the Captain gets oxygen in his supply.</font>
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ok, I wasn't going to write to this thread anymore, but your solution was soo good!!
biggrin.gif


(BTW guys, like I wrote up there, the hijacker locked the cabin door behind him - or at least that's the info I got from our news - so there were quite much less good guys than the couple of hundred like you suggest. I was only the pilots, if even all of them.)

Hugo. (And I'm still against all zeros-tolerance rules... I just don't want to be as blind as "the other side" is...)
 
Originally posted by Sal Glesser:

Given 200 people on a plane with a "nutter" trying to bring down the plane, I would still bet that some of the 200 people would do something to save themselves.

Sorry to join in the discussion late...

Unfortunately, there would be very few that would try to save themselves because people in society do not believe that they have the ability or the empowerment to do so.

On the original topic, I don't usually carry serrated blades, but my Mini-Dyad was never questioned. My Calypso Jr. Lwt was inspected in the change tray, surprisingly (to me), it was never challenged. If I think that therer will be a problem, I will check the Calypso Jr. and carry a SS Dragonfly (plainedge). My Military was forbidden in the passenger compartment on a trip from LAX when I decided to take the bag that I had originally checked (on the incoming flight) as a carry on. The security attendent held up the open knife for all to see, much to my embarrassment. At least I was able to check my suitcase with the Military inside. I know that it's a risk to lose the blade to the baggage gorillas, but I love that knife!

Also, I too have received funny looks for using my SAK (Explorer or Cybertool), but I tell people that I carry it for the screwdrivers and bottleopener. My SAK Manager hasn't ever been questioned by anyone. JamesY's story of the woman getting all excited about a SAK Classic is rather frightening on its own. I would think that she would be the one to go into hysterics if anything "unusual" were to happen on a flight. I just don't understand how people can live like an ostrich (head in the sand).

gm

[This message has been edited by gadgetman (edited 01-05-2001).]
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Because of my work, I'm a frequent flyer all over the world, and I'm been checked by securities from Russia to Usa, from Korea to Uk and so on. Now, what this people is looking for is always something that "looks" dangerous, even if necessarly it isn't. For this reason I carry ALWAYS in my bag a small Victorinox and a Plain Spydercard, that ARE dangerous, but dont look like...
The true is, I think, that this people doesn't know what they are looking for...

EX ALTO FULGOR
(para' formerly mario civalleri)
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Steve Drayton:
Cardimon I've sent you some information on UK knife law. Any questions let me know.

Steve
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Got it. Thanks.

 
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