Problems with Paragon furnace

NickWheeler

NickWheeler

Joined
Dec 3, 1999
Messages
9,437
I bought my Paragon KM24D about a year ago, but I've only had a chance to use it a handful of times.

First couple it worked GREAT.

I fired it up a couple times recently and it is really pissing me off. It takes forever to get hot and never did reach the target temp. The elements look like they're all getting hot... so I don't think I have one that's burned out.

It's properly wired and sitting on a welding cart without any obstructions around it.

I called Paragon but they need me to be standing in front of the machine while I'm on the phone with them, which is tough with my work schedule.

Anybody else have this problem and what did you do?

Obviously I need to talk to Paragon and be with the furnace, but I thought I'd throw this out here just to see.

Thanks :)
 
I'm guessing that you already checked the breaker. A 220 breaker
can be only half way off, look like it's on, and still supply 110V.
 
i bought that same model about a year ago. I was having a similar problem. When i measured the resistance of the element i was surprised to find it was a 32 ohm element. That equates to a 1500 watt kiln. They advertised it as a 3000 watt kiln. When i called they said that they changes the design do to "sawtoothing", a condition that causes the temp control to continuously overshoot. I finally got to talk to one of the engineers and he recommended that i change the element to a 24 ohm. A compromise between too slow and poor temp control. I purchased one from them and have not had problems since.

Having said all of that, If you are comfortable with electricity, you can measure the voltage on the element connections while the kiln in on. The voltage should not drop more than a few volts as compared to the voltage measured at the outlet without a load.

-John
 
I've had a KM14D for 10 years or more and for the most part have learned that Paragon is terrible when it comes to customer service. They did have a bright spot for a while, but it sounds like that is over.

Heating elements do burn out, but they sent me a replacement a while back that took 4 hours to reach 1950. I called and they said that they had a new batch of elements in that would heat faster and they sent me one. It did. And of course I had to pay to replace the old one which was bad.

I'd suggest getting a new heating element. Trouble shooting to them is like replacing things until they find the right one, and you get to buy all the new parts. Just tell them you want a hotter heating element. If you have a place to do it, get a new element that isn't theirs.

When I replace my Paragon, it won't be with another. I've read enough here to have confidence to build my next one. Even if I don't, I'll buy an Evenheat.

Gene
 
First Off you need to plug it in, Second you need to turn it on.
I swear Nick no wonder you still live at home. :jerkit: :D:D:D

If you come to Missouri I'll show you how it works. ;"Richard" ;) jr.

Bill
 
Mine seems to work fine. Comes up to temp quickly, etc. But one thing that I am sure of and I had previously read about this. The closed end gets hotter than the door end, especially at tempering temps. When I put a big blade in the thing, I put it in tang first.
 
B . Buxton said:
First Off you need to plug it in, Second you need to turn it on.
I swear Nick no wonder you still live at home. :jerkit: :D:D:D
Click to expand...

You'd sure think that an engineer who knows at least 20 different words for "pecker" would know how to stick his plug in the socket, Bill, but like you point out, he's still a little on the young side. :D
 
fitzo said:
You'd sure think that an engineer who knows at least 20 different words for "pecker" would know how to stick his plug in the socket, Bill, but like you point out, he's still a little on the young side. :D
Click to expand...

I didn't know Nick was a train driver...:D
 
My 14" one takes a while to get up to temp, but its also a 110v version and I HT so infrequently in batches that its not a problem. Exactly how long is it taking to get from 0 to, say, 1450 for carbon steels?
 
Nick, Do you have your ramp speed set at 9999? The only time I had any problems with mine before the fire was if the power was off for any length of time and then it came back on. I'd punch in a bunch of zero's and that took care of the problem.
 
Raymond Richard said:
Nick, Do you have your ramp speed set at 9999? The only time I had any problems with mine before the fire was if the power was off for any length of time and then it came back on. I'd punch in a bunch of zero's and that took care of the problem.
Click to expand...

Should it be set to 0000? Mine has always been at 9999, which i assumed was the max ramp-up rate, AKA the fastest warm-up time? If its the slowest, im gonna friggin flip out.:grumpy:
 
I've had an evenheat for awhile and I would definately get another one if I had to. I have had to replace elements, called them up and said I needed an element. and they sent me one. No big deal, no problems either.
Sorry to hear about your problems with paragon, looks like I should consider taking them off my recommended list.
Thanks,
Del
 
johnnym said:
i ....When i called they said that they changes the design do to "sawtoothing", a condition that causes the temp control to continuously overshoot. I finally got to talk to one of the engineers and he recommended that i change the element to a 24 ohm. A compromise between too slow and poor temp control. I purchased one from them and have not had problems since......

-John
Click to expand...

I don't know this furnace or it's controller but, ironoically, heat is hard on elements. The heat in the workspace will be less than that immediately surrounding the elements and constantly overshooting could mean they weren't thinking about the max. temp that element could withstand over time using this control scheme. Then again, it may be a lower watt density to make up for it (less wattage for the same surface area). The (a) new element could be the trick. Since it seemed to work OK (Nick's furnace anyway) for a while and peformance degraded over time, a new element may be in order. ALso, if there is an auto-tune feature on the controller, you could have an issue there but I won't go into that witout knowing more about the controller. I design controls and do all the tech support and development for an industrial oven company. If someone has a link to the tech support info, manual or, better yet, schematics and controller info, I could take a look at it. Nick, if you need help, PM me as I don't get over "thisaway" much. Trouble is, troubleshooting over the phone, you become the tech's eyes and ears and the process is slowed. Think about trying to talk the furnace tech through making a knife over the phone. It's inherently inefficient.
 
Thanks for the replies guys.

When I said I'd only used it a handful of times, I should have explained that in Winlock, a handful means 6 or 7. ;)

Literally... I have only fired it 6 or 7 times.

I can't imagine and element going bad after that, but I suppose if there were something wrong with it from the start.
 
If it's got the fancy controller, it'll tell you just how many cycles it's gone through...

Don't remember exactly how, and I'm 9000 miles from mine at the moment.

Recall Program, or review program, or something like that....
 
NickWheeler said:
.....Literally... I have only fired it 6 or 7 times.....
Click to expand...

You're right, Nick - "bad elements" are not likely if you haven't been using it a lot. I saw a couple other suggestions above that were good - their trouble-shooting guide covers these.

http://www.paragonweb.com/files/troubleshoot/IM195.pdf

Look under the part where it talks about your furnace "suddenly" not working well (as opposed to the process time becoming longer over time). If you have a meter and know how to use it - great. If not, find a friend or relative you trust poking around "live" components.

Not terribly likely anything is worn out but, when troubleshooting, never rule anything out. Start at the beginning, even to include checking to see if it's plugged in - even if you're getting heat. If you find nothing wrong physically and you have the right voltage in all the right places, look at the controller.

I have not reviewed that yet but will try to locate the controller documentation and look at that. If nothing else, start over with factory default parameter settings and document any chages you make. If they don't supply a table for the entries. write in the manual or use a sheet of regular paper but document any settings you change. When something else happens, you will have this to go back and check against or to re-enter should the controller crap out.
 
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