Problems working with cable damascus.

J

JZknives

Joined
Feb 7, 2013
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204
Hey all yesterday I went to my local blacksmith meeting and was working on a billet i made of Extra enhanced plowsteel (i think its like 1084) and had some issues that resulted in the knife being ruined. Anyway at a previous meeting I had help from one of the veteran smiths creating the billet and he was a great help and i worked it down and made a nice flat profile and took it home. It was ALMOST perfect visually (it had one exposed cold shut right in the middle where it must not have welded) Anyway over the course of a few weeks I attempted time and time again to try to close up this gap by forgewelding and no matter how hard I tried it would just never seal up.

Skip ahead to yesterday and I decided I would just live with it and i cut off the part that had the defect and started forging out a stick tang on the unneffected part and it seemed like the whole thing started coming apart , Like it was never welded in the first place or something. So I grabbed the borax and poured some into the gaps and tried forgewelding THAT back into place and no matter what I did it never sealed up.

It was a learning experience I guess but I still dont feel like i learned anything lol.

I really like the look of cable damascus but I really dont want to go through all that labor to have it fall apart on me again. So I ask two questions of you.

1. Is there anything that you can see that i did that was glaringly wrong?

and

2. Is there anybody who sells fully welded cable damascus billets?
 
You can plainly see where you went wrong in picture1. :rolleyes:

So you made a damascus billet entirely out of the extra enhanced plowsteel? No contrasting steels to give better visual definition?
Assuming you had it up to welding temp, the billet had clean fluxed surfaces and you hit it hard enough when at welding, it may be that the steel has a very high silicon content. Although this means that the steel sticks together really well, it also means that it pulls itself apart as you forge it. The tears start not at the welds but within the steel between the welds. Some steels just won't stick to other steels.
 
parbajtor said:
You can plainly see where you went wrong in picture1. :rolleyes:

So you made a damascus billet entirely out of the extra enhanced plowsteel? No contrasting steels to give better visual definition?
Assuming you had it up to welding temp, the billet had clean fluxed surfaces and you hit it hard enough when at welding, it may be that the steel has a very high silicon content. Although this means that the steel sticks together really well, it also means that it pulls itself apart as you forge it. The tears start not at the welds but within the steel between the welds. Some steels just won't stick to other steels.
Click to expand...
from what i understand the definition doesnt come from contrasting steels but the welds themselves.

CableDamasucHunter004.jpg
 
Can't see pics on my phone but sounds like you didn't get it clean enough, didn't get the whole billet to welding temps and possibly not enough flux or too much flux. Sorry, just going by your post since I can't see the pics. I've always found cable harder to weld up than strip bullets.
 
The enemy of working cable is that all forging needs to be done at welding heat. Try and draw out a tang at normal forging temps....and it will all unravel.

In the welds, it has to be clean, well fluxed, and worked HOT. Quit welding when it drops below yellow-red.
Once it is all welded up....weld it again a time or two. If it doesn't sound like a solid bar of steel, it isn't compacted and welded solid yet.

Once welded up solid, draw out and shape at 2200-1800F. Don't forge down to red...or you will open up a weld that will never close up right.
 
Stacy, I have only had one bad experience tryingto weld cable......I quit after that. :D With that said, I had a thought. I have read that the pattern in cable damascus is actually caused by the decarburizing of the outer surface of the individual wires. If that is the case, then I would think that your comment about working at high heat would be more critical as it sounds like we would be trying to weld low carbon "iron" to itself as opposed to high carbon steel to steel and that requires higher temps.
 
Stacy is dead on..Phillip has welded up many,many feet of cable..We sell it like crazy at craft fairs..Cable will delaminate if worked too cold..Even if it was welded correctly...It has to be worked somewhat hot..If welded up right it will sound/feel like a solid bar, even then work it at about yellow heat..
Also the way I understand it the pattern is actually the decard lines between the welded strands..Thats the pattern you see..Ive seen people unravel it and add nickle wire to cable damascus..that looks cool..
 
bladsmth said:
The enemy of working cable is that all forging needs to be done at welding heat. Try and draw out a tang at normal forging temps....and it will all unravel.

In the welds, it has to be clean, well fluxed, and worked HOT. Quit welding when it drops below yellow-red.
Once it is all welded up....weld it again a time or two. If it doesn't sound like a solid bar of steel, it isn't compacted and welded solid yet.

Once welded up solid, draw out and shape at 2200-1800F. Don't forge down to red...or you will open up a weld that will never close up right.
Click to expand...
AHHH this explains alot. I was working at normal orange forging temps.

The part of the tang that broke off was in a yellow tempature and the grain was really big on the edge that snapped off so i thought i was forging too hot :(
 
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