Production/Custom Knives comparison

[PhilL]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Steve-O:
there are many little 'mini-shops' (Mr Carson and Mr Reeves for example) that are turning out good knives.
</font>

Steve, I know you know your stuff when it comes to custom knives and custom knife makers, but I think that statement is a little broad and totally missleading. It's my understanding that all CRK is semi-production, but even though some projects that come from Carson Knives are also worked on with Kit's son Jody and SIL Mike. Most recently their F4 neck knives, where Jody and Mike cut out the blades and Kit does the grinding at night aftter Kit works all day on his custom knife orders. A custom knife from Kit Carson is made by Kit Carson alone and not a "mini-shop" as you would suggest. I just wanted to clarify this point since Kit is out of town.

As far as some of the other posts here, you guys are so far off-base in your thinking it's hard to find a place to start.

------------------
Will Work 4 Knives
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=254126&f=0" TARGET=_blank>

</A>
(To see my photos...click on the Logo)

 

[Michael_Aos]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by bquinlan:
If you ever get the urge to try a custom you should check out Bob Dozier ( http://www.dozierknives.com/ ).
--Bob Q</font>

Any thoughts on the "Trapper II" -vs- DK FHA (Alum handle)?

~3" blade folder suits me fine, and the $295-$340 doesn't sound too bad. $415 for the Micarta handle versions is starting to approach "expensive".

Mike

 

[Les Robertson]

I, Like many of you started with factory knives. However, unlike many here I did take my knives to the extreme. I was consistently disappointed with factory knives. Now in fairness to them, this was 10-15 years ago.

The quality of the factory knives had improved immensely since then. This has been for two main reasons, improved machinery and working with custom makers.

Basically, all of these factories are doing what Al Mar suggested to Pete Gerber back in the 70's (talk about a forward thinking individual).

Yes, the $10 knife can cut. But why waste all that money. Get the lid off of a can, those always have sharp edges. Don't forget a piece of obsidian will work great too.

The Internet has provided any and all who want information on any kind of knife, all they can stand.

What generally determines whether a person will buy a factory or a custom knives is two basic things.

1) How much money they can afford

2) How educated are they about knives.

The more educated you are about knives, the more you will appreciate the extra expenses associated with them, the extra time to build them and the added attention to detail that is given to each knife by the man or woman who builds them one at a time. This does not mean you will spend the extra money.

Now, snobbery is not just the realm of Custom knife collectors. There are those who buy the high end factory knives, William Henry, Chris Reeve or Randall knives and look down their noses at those who buy, Scharade, Uncle Henry, etc.

So no matter what level, many people take pride in ownership of whatever knife they own.

Are the good custom knives better than any factory knives? Yes.

Are their factory knives that are better than some custom knives? Yes.

Here are a few suggestions for I offer to those who are looking at buying their first custom knife.

1) Buy what you like
2) Buy the best you can afford
3) Get the right knife for you and what you need it for.
4) Do your homework. This will help you justify the expense of a knife.
5) Contrary to popular opinon, Knives should hold their value. If your knives do not, you are buying the wrong knives or you are paying to much for them.

I bought my first custom knife because I was looking for something better. I bought my second custom knife, because I knew I had found something better.




------------------
Les Robertson
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Custom Knife Entrepreneur

 

[PhilL]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Les Robertson:

Yes, the $10 knife can cut. But why waste all that money. Get the lid off of a can, those always have sharp edges. Don't forget a piece of obsidian will work great too.
</font>

Les, I wonder how many future customers you lose when you make comments like that? That compares an Opinel to the lid off a can. You got them blinders on pretty tight huh?


------------------
Will Work 4 Knives
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=254126&f=0" TARGET=_blank>

</A>
(To see my photos...click on the Logo)

 

[Gene]

Good points Les and I agree with most of them. I also agree that factory knives have improved immensly. For the reasons you gave PLUS the fact that folks are just so much more educated due to the internet.
Manufacturers can no longer pass off inferior knives with inferior steels, (well, MOST of the time anyway).

As you say being educated on what makes a custom is THE most important factor in obtaining a quality custom. There are plenty of sub par "customs" out there.

Of course Grandpa Smith would say, as he pulls out his $5.00 case he bought 30 years ago; "This is all the "custom" I've ever needed".

 

[Hal]

Gene,
That would be granpa Hal and his $15.00 Schrade you're talking about

Those Case knives with the shiny finish are too flashy.

 

[Les Robertson]

PhilL,

You are correct about my blinders being on. Unlike most of the other "custom" knife dealers. I don't sell factory knives. Haven't since the 80's. Consequently, my only focus is custom knives.

Personally, I have found that most of my clients prefer that I am a specialist and not a generalist.

So no, I don't worry to much if I compare a the edge of an Opinel to that of can lid (even though they will both cut and that was your point with the "who are we kidding" comment).

Obviously you missed my point. A knife is so much more than just an edge. Which is why people spend the money the do for knives.

Phil, no matter what the product is, it can always be made cheaper. Watch the knife show in HSN sometime. You can get 144 liner lock folders for $79. On top of that, the manufacturer and HSN are making money. With a retail price of .54 cents per knife. Can you imagine what the manufactures cost is on these knives. Probably around a dime.

At that price, even the can lid has trouble competing.

I do have a question for you, don't you worry about making comments like you have about the Opinel? If enough people belive that your comments are logical and then opt for the Opinel, doesn't that devalue the worth of your custom knife collection?

The answer is again no. Why? Because most people who opt for a $10 knife are never going to buy a custom knife. For any number of reasons.

So Phil, I appreciate your concerns for my business. But not to worry, after all does the Opinel dealer offer you the full price you paid when trading in your Opinel for another knife he sells?

Probably not, but I do on every knife I sell.

How can I do that? Becuase what I sell are so much more than just something that cuts.



------------------
Les Robertson
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Custom Knife Entrepreneur

 

[PhilL]

Les, I think you miss the point. I don't have an Opinel dealer and I would think that most people reading here know that an Opinel isn't a HSN POS. It's a 100 year old French design knife that is an exceptional knife for the price and is more than suitable for 90% of what a knife is designed to do.
Les, I bought my first custom knife from you and I wouldn't hesitate for a second in dealing with you again, in fact I'm a fan of yours. I'm not concerned at all about your future business, you are very savy about what's happeneing in the custom knife business and one heck of a salesman, but this attitude that if you don't sell it, it must be a POS does reflect on your credibility.

Let me end this on a positive note and where I do agree with you. I think collectors that spend a ton of money on production knives should make the move to handmade knives and you're one of the best sources. I know you pay special atttention to knives that will hold or increase in value for your customers and that is commendable.

But, if I had to outfit a Boy Scout troop for a weekend of camping, it's Opinels for everyone not customs.

Les, is it true that when Art Washburn told you that you had listed his name wrong on your website as Andrew and not Arthur, you told him that since you're never wrong Art and his parents had to be?

------------------
Will Work 4 Knives
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=254126&f=0" TARGET=_blank>

</A>
(To see my photos...click on the Logo)

[This message has been edited by PhilL (edited 06-24-2001).]

 

[Double Edge Dave]

Could we maybe have a little more on-topic responses and less sniping?
David

------------------
AKTI# A000150
NC Custom Knifemakers Guild member
NC Knife Knuts member

 

[bquinlan]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by PhilL:
Who the heck are we kidding here? A $10 Opinel will accomplish what most of us need to do with a knife. Anything more than that is just showing off and bragging rigths.</font>

I understand your point, but I think there is more to it than that. Most of us will never push our knives to the edge. Does that make preparing for the possibility a waste?

Some of my energy and money go into being prepared for things I do not expect to happen. I carry a handgun, a good knife, and a sub-wallet-sized survival kit whenever I leave the house. The trunk of my car contains more survival gear and a fairly decent medical kit. I have never been attacked or stranded in the wilderness, but I feel better knowing that I will have some options if either occurs.

Carrying a good knife instead of a mediocre one is partly another investment in being ready for whatever happens.

--Bob Q

 

[Les Robertson]

PhilL,

Please go back and re-read, you have missed your own point.

Do I feel that factory knives as a whole are inferior to custom knives...Yes.

Quite frankly with the price of many of the better custom knives bring, they should be superior.

Are all custom knives better than all factory knives...No.

As for Andy Washburn. Yes, I contacted his parents and they agreed that they were in error when naming him. The paper work has been sent forward for a legal correction of his former name.

Phil, I appreciate you looking out for me.

Now as David has pointed out, lets get back to the discussion relevant to this thread.



------------------
Les Robertson
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Custom Knife Entrepreneur