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Production M390 - Expectation vs Reality?

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Cosmodragoon, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. halden.doerge

    halden.doerge I'll Sharpen Your Knife Gold Member

    Aug 17, 2014
    Bring on the Vanex Superclean! :D
     
    BigKurtHaze, ScooterG and Danke42 like this.
  2. Banter 247

    Banter 247

    374
    Feb 22, 2019
    /sigh

    You seem to be misunderstanding my intent. If you look at the list of names thrown up on IG and YT of people pushing data to keep manufacturers accountable, you will see mine on it.

    Explaining why it’s happening is not the same as being an apologist, or saying I don’t expect it to be fixed.
     
  3. FiveToes

    FiveToes Gold Member Gold Member

    73
    May 22, 2019
    No, I just lack the ability to convey inflection appropriately in the messages I quickly type between meetings. I end up coming off hotter than I intend, which isn't helpful and I apologize for that. Specifically your videos are what made me decide a test would be appropriate here since I highly appreciate your work. I shouldn't have lumped the two of you together into one quote tree but here we are now.

    Suffice it to say my work has taken me through all kinds of manufacturing from juice blenders to heavy machinery construction for the last 20 years. Most people employ (or at least attempt to employ) a continuous improvement (CI) model where there is some sort of feedback between manufacturing and product acceptance. It sounds like this is missing in many places here while others are specifically setting the bar low for one reason or another. The first can be fixed through an appropriate QMS. The second can at least be agreed upon as "not ideal from a purely performance standpoint" based on supporting evidence from an appropriate cut test. The first half of the test is to see if a small batch heat treater can hit specific HRCs based on supplied requirements. The second half is to see the cutting capacity of similarly constructed test mules using the same edge geometry where the only difference is heat treat. We can't even get people to agree what the best heat treat target is between 60HRC-62HRC (based on metal supplier white papers) and 57-59 (based on product manufacturers claimed specifications). The only way I can see to reach consensus is to generate actual data on the subject through controlled testing.
     
    attila. and Banter 247 like this.
  4. halden.doerge

    halden.doerge I'll Sharpen Your Knife Gold Member

    Aug 17, 2014
    More controlled cut testing will definitely be the best way to continue garnering data. It would be really cool if the folks doing some of this work might put out some sort of agreed upon standards that everyone could use to conduct the testing. Might get really interesting if that happened. What do you think @Banter 247 @jcoolG19 ?
     
  5. Batmanacw

    Batmanacw

    16
    Mar 28, 2018
    I asked Steel Will what hardness they use on their M390 Gekko on their Facebook page. You think I'll get a response.

    Even if my Gekko is not as hard as it could be, it still holds an edge very well. At 30° included it holds up to scraping hickory at a 90° angle without rolling or chipping. It resharpens fairly easily.

    How disappointed should I be? I'm trying to gain proper perspective.
     
    halden.doerge and marchone like this.
  6. halden.doerge

    halden.doerge I'll Sharpen Your Knife Gold Member

    Aug 17, 2014
    At the end of the day, with any given single example of a knife, performance is king.
     
    DeadboxHero, FiveToes and Banter 247 like this.
  7. Mo2

    Mo2

    Apr 8, 2016
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  8. DeadboxHero

    DeadboxHero

    Mar 22, 2014
  9. DeadboxHero

    DeadboxHero

    Mar 22, 2014
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
     
    WKFClark, cwsmith17, microbe and 7 others like this.
  10. halden.doerge

    halden.doerge I'll Sharpen Your Knife Gold Member

    Aug 17, 2014
    More grist for the mill:

     
  11. Banter 247

    Banter 247

    374
    Feb 22, 2019
    Supersteel Steve or Outpost76 would LOVE to talk testing with anyone interested. They were both flat out excited when Tom Hosang started doing it. They’re 100% about gathering data, and blowing up sample size.
     
    cwsmith17, tomhosang and FiveToes like this.
  12. Banter 247

    Banter 247

    374
    Feb 22, 2019
    I’m really impressed with how Nick presented that. He does a lot of strong content, but ... to the point @DeadboxHero made with the SPOT ON memes, this conversation is often a huge pain in the @$$. People often blow it up, or try to throw it out, and it’s hard to get across how it fits in the big picture.

    Seeing Nick *get it*, and appropriately build in perspective... that was very nice.
     
  13. Batmanacw

    Batmanacw

    16
    Mar 28, 2018
    Steel Will quoted my Gekko at 60 to 61. Sounds fine to me. Hopefully their testing is accurate but it is still very good steel and the performance seems pretty awesome. So far, so good.
     
  14. Mo2

    Mo2

    Apr 8, 2016
     
    Banter 247 likes this.
  15. miso2

    miso2 Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 19, 2014
    Just a random thought.
    Regarding Lionsteel slip joints, isn't the blade tang annealed to match with the hardness of the spring?
    So, if the tests were performed there, it may report lower numbers than that in the middle of the blade.
     
    Kreese likes this.
  16. Banter 247

    Banter 247

    374
    Feb 22, 2019
    There was more communication this morning. Lionsteel is taking the matter very seriously. Kurt should be going to Peters HT to verify the hit results, and one of the extremely low hrc samples has already been edge retention tested.

    We’ll see how it shakes out from here.
     
  17. Pomsbz

    Pomsbz

    Jul 31, 2015
    deleted
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  18. Pomsbz

    Pomsbz

    Jul 31, 2015
    I already sold my Roundhead on. Till now I was still sure that I was doing something wrong. After all it was M390!
     
    Eli Chaps likes this.
  19. Mo2

    Mo2

    Apr 8, 2016
     
  20. BigWillie

    BigWillie

    182
    Jun 4, 2019
    Has anyone in this thread ever lost an edge magically/

    lol

    I haven't

    Maybe you should maintain your tools
     

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