Production vs Custom

dePaul

dePaul

Joined
Aug 8, 2000
Messages
1,044
My question is simple. What knife gives you the greatest value for the money? Although there are some very expensive custom build knives, there are also a great number of them costing about the same as a large number of the better production knives like; Microtech, Masters of Defense, Chris Reeve and so on. So, which category would you prefer?
 
If you just want something that will cut decently, then a Spyderco or other moderately priced production knife would do you just fine.

If you're looking for something more, customs are just that...you get what you want.
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~Mitch


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My Hobby Page
 
I have several custom knives and they are extremely nice. I also have lots of factory knives and some of these border on the quality of the custom pieces at 1/3 or 1/4 of the cost. I don't think any of the factory knives come very close in terms of pride of ownership or beauty. It depends what matters to you. If you are limited in cash then I would recommend getting a few fine factory pieces over a single custom. If you have the money the customs are really something. I have Terzuola, Coleman and D'Holder knives and can recommend them highly. ...Ed.
 
When it comes to fit and finish, I don't think there is any real difference between a quality custom and quality factory knife. To me the main difference is that I don't feel comfortable using a $400+ knife. If I scratched if or chipped the blade, I would be sick. A quality factory custom collaboration like the Spyderco
Terzoula Starmate or the MT Lightfoot LCC is a way to have a cooldesign that i can use and not cry about it if it gets scratched.
 
It depends on what type of knife you're looking for. I am unaware of a big Bowie being factory produced that's any good. Larger, 8"+, fixed blades don't seem to have as much factory interest. Sure, there are some. Cold Steel jumps to mind. But if you want a fancier finish, maybe a bone or wood handle, for example, then you've got to go custom.

Fortunately, though, modern technology has enabled several manufacturers to produce very, very high quality products. Benchmade and Spyderco, for example, both produce outstanding knives if what you're looking for is a common knife to use.

Production knives, however, are unlikely to really hold or accumulate any value. There's just to many of 'em. Customs, though, are generally one-of-a-kind or one of a very small number. They do have the potential to at least hold their value. So, collectors often prefer them.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
Originally posted by dePaul:
My question is simple. What knife gives you the greatest value for the money?
Click to expand...
That's a "simple" question?
It all depends on what <em>you</em> count as "value".
Customs certainly produce extra value if you want something factories don't provide or if you value having a knife unlike any other.
Unfortunately I have to say that I've come to appreciate the consistent quality some regular production companies provide. Perhaps not "perfect" all the time, but at least never worse than "good enough".


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Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
Latest update: Calypso Jr Lightweight

"I've always been fascinated by Scandinavian knives [...] they're simple, in an advanced way".
- Bob Loveless
 
RE the "outrageousness" of high-end custom prices: yes, $300+ is a helluva lot to shell out for a small sharp object. But it is far less "outrageous" than buying a $35k+ Audi A6 rather than a $17k Honda Civic as your commuter car. Indeed, most of us probably wouldn’t ask an A6 owner, "why not the Civic EX?" While we choke on the $250 difference between a quality Spyderco and a Sebenza or custom folder (God forbid the notion of using it), most of us probably accept the A6’s sporty luxury and handling as a "legitimate" rationale for its $18k price hike on the Civic.

If your neighbor with the A6 said, "Oh no! I wouldn’t dare drive it!," you’d probably wonder why he bought it. This, only 30 minutes after you diligently re-cleaned and oiled your $400 "indestructible" 52100 diff-tempered custom knife with kid gloves, then returned it to its silk pillow in the oxygen-free safety vault in the granite/steel frame basement, wondering, "how could someone even think of using this beauty?!?"

Everyone who *has* used/now uses a $400+ knife no doubt has shared Anthony Cheeseboro’s reluctance at some point. (Many Sebenza owners say the same thing.) That first scratch/blemish hurts. But thereafter, the custom knife will only gain in personal value for you as you cherish and enjoy its use, even as it may "lose" market value for others.

But the value of the best "used" handmade and custom knives may balance out in the long run. Think of that 50-year old used Randall you saw at a show, or in a friend's family collection: its deep patina, small nicks in the handle, and blemishes are evidence of the history it has made and experienced over three generations of war and peace. You can’t say that of the clean, well-oiled knife that sat in the sock drawer for the past half-century.

gmm
 
I agree with what you said about how that first scratch on a good knife hurts but then you use it. I felt that way about many knives, but at a certain level I see very heavily anodized or jeweled knives more as art than tools. For instance my Sebenzas are quite scratched, my carbon fiber Elishewitz is virtually NIB.
 
At the $300-$500 price point, I will always go with a handmade knife. I own exactly 2 production knives in that range. One is the SpeedTech I won here, and the other is a Whitewing, which I hesitate to call a production knife, knowing what Bailey put into it. I'll also qualify my comments by saying that I believe there is a place for mini-shops, but IMHO, that place tops out at about $300. I'll also qualify this by saying that I believe well made autos are worth $$, so Microtech does have honest business asking in this range for their knives.

I don't see a huge quality bump from many of the high end production knives in the $100-$200 range to the production knives above that, so I just don't buy in. But I do see a qualitative difference between $100-$200 production knives and handmade knives.

Additionally, there is what I like to think of as the "blood, sweat, and tears" factor. I'll pay extra to know that the maker sweated over my knife, working to make it precisely as I wanted it. I don't get that from a factory knife, so I can't see paying the same for one that I would a handmade.

Just MHO, YMMV.

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AKTI Member #A000832

"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, the bear eats you."
 
Thx for all your contributions. I´ll really have to think this over. I have some bucks stuffed into my mattress and as it looks, I will probably use them buying a 1) not too expensive production knife for use 2) a custom just for the collection. Would you agree?
Have a knife´s day
smile.gif

 
I use the custom knives I own and it brings me great satisfaction. granted, this has kept me from spending $2K on some really fancy stuff. I have avoided buying any knife that I won't use. I have spent up to $500 on customs.
I struggled with this issue when I bought my first customs from the late Mel Sorg aka MadPoet. I ordered knives to use but they were so beautiful and special, I was afraid to use them. Conversations with Mel made me realize he would be disappointed if they were never used. He made them to be the best cutting, most ergonomic, as well as best looking knives he could. He put a great deal of effort into them and was very proud of the finished product.
Now, I honor him when I draw that razor sharp D2 from it's sheath and make the first cut on a freshly killed deer. Yeah, I could do the job with a $12 walmart knife if I had to. But it would'nt be the same.
Forgive me if I ramble. Mel died 1 year ago this weekend and I'm thinking about him alot right now.
If you are interested in a pic, just click http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=269728&a=2006217&p=18947993&Sequence=0 or, http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=269728&a=2006217&p=19954306

Think about this: Everything in this world is temporary. Someday, when a giant asteroid crashes into our planet, who's gonna give a damn about a little nick in the blade?
Use it, care for it, enjoy it.
 
One of my favorite things to do is go to the links here and check out the custom maker's sites. It's amazing how many custom fixed blade knives are available in the price range of a "good" production folder.
 
Mr. Rosvall is correct. If you don't think you can find a great custom for the price of a high-end production blade, you simply have not looked around enough yet.

Hammer those links, they are worth every minute of looking. Another thing... when a member includes a link to his/her collection in their signature, go look. I have a custom on order as we speak from a maker I would not have found were it not for browsing this unknown resource. Moreover, go over and look around at the custom forum, as well as "Knives for sale: Makers" Great places all.

I for one will use every knife I have, custom or production, because that is what I bought each piece to do: cut stuff. You may call me weird for taking a scrimshawed damascus piece into the woods looking for a deer, but I say using the piece is honoring the maker. Just my .02
 
Maybe I love my knives too much because I just don´t have the courage to use my better knives like they should be used. And a large number of them are not even customs. I tend to use all the crappy knives before I use one of the goodies. I´ll have to change my way. Any suggestions on how I should approach this problem? Maybe to make some scratches on those knives I intend to use? (A horrible thought
mad.gif


[This message has been edited by dePaul (edited 09-04-2000).]
 
IMHO customs have an intangible value that can't really be measured in monetary terms with say factory productions. I enjoy custom knives for the fact that one individual with just his mind and hands created these beautiful, usable tools from crude chunks of steel and wood. And not just by punching keys on a CNC machine.

Yeah, that's an oversimplification of modern knifemaking as most makers have lots of machines but (I think it was Phil Hartsfield who mentioned this) customs have a spirit all of their own. I think most makers would be pleased at the thought that the lovingly-wrought tools that they created will be owned, used, and treasured by knife nuts even years or decades after their time.

Sheesh, i don't believe I wrote all that. Gotta cut down on the coffee...

Redvenom

[This message has been edited by redvenom (edited 09-04-2000).]
 
Buy a crkt to use and a custom to admire. CRKT knives will cut just as good if not better than the customs. Why would you spend over $300 on a knife to cut things with when you could get a $20-$50 CRKT to do the same thing with?
 
Because the custom is higher-quality. And, if you order is yourself, rather than buy an existing knife, it is customised to your specs., so the knife will fit you better than any production knife can. Not that you have to go out and buy a custom knife right away, or that those of us who own custom knives throw out all our factory knives, but if you, personally, feel that the benefits outweigh the cost increase, then go for it. I do feel that way, so I went for it, but that's just me, and each person must make their own decision.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
It depends what you mean by value. If someone were only interested in bang for the buck with respect to how well the knife skins a deer or chops kindling at camp, I doubt that many customs could approach the dollar for dollar value of factory blades. A Cold Steel Master Hunter is a relatively inexpensive yet highly functional hunting blade. Try to get a custom for that price! But, if you value not only function, but form, aesthetics, personality and the idea of having something handmade, customs are obviously the better "value". This does not mean that you have to shell out $1000+ for a loveless hunter!! There are more than a handful of knife nuts here who have taken a cold steel knife, for example, ground off the handle and added their own personal touch. You get an almost limitless level of options with customs and with knives, which with care will last you many many years, may mke your cutting chores not only easier but more enjoyable too. For me, I couldn't settle into just one camp. Right now I can only afford production knives and knife supplies for the knives I am making for family. Soon that will change and I will definitely go the production route. But if I want a sharpened prybar, why should I spend $50 on supplies and material and make myself a crude one when I can just order a Cold Steel SRK or Recon Tanto factory second to do the job!!!

P.S. Sorry for the excessive Cold Steel references. I was at the knife store yesterday and handled mostly Cold Steel knives, so that is on my brain right now!

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"Come What May..."
 
Interting thoughts on this thread. The odd thing is all of these thoughts make sense.

The one thing that I don't understand is why are you so reluctant to use your custom knife. This is what they are for.

In 1985, while I was in the Army I got my first Walter Brend Model 2 (not my first custom knife). At that time the knife was almost $500. People constantly asked me, aren't you afraid you will lose the knife or scratch it up. Never lost it, and yes I scratched it up. The great thing about custom knives is that you can always send them back to the maker and have them cleaned up. They come back looking brand new.

So "use em if you got em".


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Les Robertson
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

"If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor"
Albert Einstein
 
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