productions, what's the point? (fixed blades in particular)

I can see where the OP is coming from. Prices - at least here - have been climbing up year over year. For instance, prices on spyderco's rised 50e per knives recently. I don't know if it's the greed of the retailer, or just the "economy", but that's getting ridiculous. And the knives they made 50e before are still the same knives, just that much more expensive. So it's kind of hard to justify buying knives that near or go over the prices of customs.. so, might as well support the craftsmen and have something that nobody has already.
 
I believe that the OP's original question was not accurately quaified. It's not why choose a "production knife" over a "custom knife".
It's WHICH production knife over WHICH custom knife. Just as production knives run the gamut of magnificent pieces to pieces of garbage, custom knives vary from works by masters who have decades of experience and reputation, to knifemakers that have been at it for a few years and whose quality and reputation is not known to many people. Anyone who has taken one economics class can tell you
that from a cost perspective, there is no way that one person can handmake one knife after another and match the production and volume costs of a factory. So the custom must offer additional value be it material, design or maker reputation. The best known and sucesful custom makers have already reached this level, whereas the vast number of other custom makers are aspiring to that level.
A production knife is only as good as what factory made it. And a "Custom" knife is only as good as who the knifemaker is/was.
 
GronK said:
This particular knife is special and even nicer in hand. I've turned down $500 offers on it in the last couple of years.
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Right, I get it. I am more pointing out the discrepancy between the price you paid and what that same money would be worth today. I mean, if price is a discussion point in this thread (even though we have been told it is not) then we at least need to get the figures correct for comparison purposes.

That $100 you spent would be worth $285 in today's dollars. That is almost a 3x difference. That extra $185 would be considered by many to be a big chunck of change and it could be some nice production knives.:thumbup:
 
Divine_Madcat said:
$500+ for a 440c knife? Sold in a heartbeat (though i understand if the knife has sentimental value...)
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Did you take a close look at that knife? The craftsmanship is excellent. And 440C is a damn fine steel.

He could sell it in half a heartbeat.

Eric
 
GronK said:
It is a one off by a highly thought of maker who has retired. Look at the fit of the "blind pinned" slabs, the tapered tang, the silver solder job. Makers at the annual custom knife show in Denver have asked to borrow it to use as an example of what's possible. There is a sentimental value but it is backed up by exceptional craftsmanship. It is my only non-user. It could have 440A for steel and it would make no difference.
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I guess my big problem is, i don't look at tools as art objects (ironic, since i do appreciate art in general). For ME (since i know others will groan about how i am wrong, but its my opinion), none what you said impresses me about the knife. The cosmetic touches, while perhaps nice, are meaningless in the overall function of the knife. I do respect sentimental value, and cant fault you for that reason to never sell.

But for this uncouth user, i see an overpriced piece of midgrade steel, that i would kill to be able to flip for half a grand..
 
My thoughts are if you have to ask the question you probably shouldn't be making custom knives. :)
 
Divine_Madcat said:
I guess my big problem is, i don't look at tools as art objects (ironic, since i do appreciate art in general). For ME (since i know others will groan about how i am wrong, but its my opinion), none what you said impresses me about the knife. The cosmetic touches, while perhaps nice, are meaningless in the overall function of the knife. I do respect sentimental value, and cant fault you for that reason to never sell.

But for this uncouth user, i see an overpriced piece of midgrade steel, that i would kill to be able to flip for half a grand..
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I have to agree with this^^^

The cosmetic touches may be nice to some folks, but if you have something to cut, then the moment the edge touches the material is what it's all about to me. It's a cutting tool, and I want that to be first and for most. I don't care anymoe about the cosmetic touches. I did once, a log time ago, but that was then, and it's been a lot of water under the bridge and a lot of life's experiences since then.

I'd rather have a plain unadorned utilitarian knife like the Green River skinners that cut well, than an unknown but pretty knife by a custom maker that may or may not know what he's doing.
 
This^ is one reason Phill Hartsfild chose to use a duty finish on his blades.
rolf
 
GronK said:
. . . I bought this polished stag 440C beauty from a maker who was local to me for under $100. Unfortunately that was 35 years ago and he retired about 10 years ago.

698c9c4f-63db-4f30-8307-1121fcc8304b.jpg

schultz004.jpg
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All about opinions. I wouldn't pay $100 for that NOW, much less 35 years ago.
 
atavist said:
good points...
serrations take a lot of file work, or tech...

... as to warranty though most guys i know (including myself) warrant there knives for the life of the smith, and make making it right a priority.
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I have a 1981 Kuzan Tanto made by Pacific Cutlery. I called Benchmade and they told me they would honor the Lifesharp
warranty on it. That really surprised me since as a legal entity, PCC is long dead.
 
jackknife said:
I have to agree with this^^^

The cosmetic touches may be nice to some folks, but if you have something to cut, then the moment the edge touches the material is what it's all about to me. It's a cutting tool, and I want that to be first and for most. I don't care anymoe about the cosmetic touches. I did once, a log time ago, but that was then, and it's been a lot of water under the bridge and a lot of life's experiences since then.

I'd rather have a plain unadorned utilitarian knife like the Green River skinners that cut well, than an unknown but pretty knife by a custom maker that may or may not know what he's doing.
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I agree with you in principal. I bought the specimen shown on a whim and it's one of only two I keep for beauty and sentiment. This is the other one.

Buck002.jpg


The rest are either user grade (primarily Spyderco and CRK) or trade material.
 
atavist said:
This post is inspired by Pat's previous post about mid techs....

As a knife maker I'm obviously biased... when you like a custom design and want a knife like it but can only afford a mid tech I get that.... but why production knives? ever?

And don't say price...
My custom blades are fairly priced (not meant as a self-promotion) and I know a handful of local craftsman who make knives just because they love making knives and practically give them away...

Granted with folders there is a certain level of machining involved to get a slick action (that's why I don't make them)... so not talking about high end folders here... but why on earth buy a production fixed blade when every town has a handful of local craftsmen who make quality knives and will sale them at close to materials cost to be able to keep doing it?
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Actually it is price, as hard as it might be for you to believe. Now many people you there can you find that carry a knife at all? Now of that small number, how many that would spend say over $350 on their knives? What you have left is a very, very small number. Production companies (most) can repair or replace a knife within a matter of a week or two. Some custom makers do not have the facilities or skilled staff in numbers to handle such things.
Production knives are readily available for a number of places. Customs are not. You have usually one source, and have to wait for your turn on the "books" and the stars to align.

If production knives are lost, they area much easier to replace than a custom. It's not a huge investment to begin with so that has to be taken into consideration.

Materials and design. Some people love certain design styles from the most successful knife makers in the industry. Not all people are like this, but a great many want to try something that costs less and is a legitimately made item, not a counterfeit or clone.

Consistency. Most production knives are fairly consistent and can be purchased immediately. ALso, many people unfortunately view custom knives and even some production knives as safe queens, not to be used but ogled over.
 
I can get various production blades for a fraction of what comparable custom blades would cost. Kabar USMC = $80. Custom version??
 
Not enough custom makers make 100-200 dollar knives in steels such as S35V, Elmax, 3v,4v, M4.. most of the time you see 1095 or some other carbon steel which doesn't interest me in the slightest.
 
The OP makes 1084 knives in what appears to be be the $250 and up range.

I would never pay that much for that kind of knife.


There is a guy from Poland on the exchange with an interesting looking mid size knife in N690 and G10 for $133 delivered. That really makes the OP's case, though.

Personally, if I want something handmade but also inexpensive, I buy Scandi-made blades and mount them myself. It is such a simple and inexpensive process, I am shocked everyone doesn't do it at least once.
 
Yalius said:
Consistency, predictability, availability, replaceability. And "every town has a handful of local craftsmen" with virtually no reputation to speak of and could be utter flakes as far as I know. And I know you say to ignore price, but when a $20 Mora or $50 Kershaw or $90 Becker will handle every conceivable need I will have for a knife, what's the reason for me to invest 2 to 10 times as much for a custom? When I use a fixed blade, chances are I'm doing something a bit rough-and-tumble and I'm not overly concerned with the aesthetics of my blade. And no matter how willing you are to make something right, how willing are you to work with me if, instead of damaging my knife, I lose it in the woods somewhere or drop it over the side of the boat?
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This pretty much echos my thoughts.
 
IMO, part of this comes down to what you have already. I have production fixed blades that I got over the years that would go for up to $200 or so today. (Mainly Fallkniven.) Got that covered & wouldnt pay that much for a fixed production knife today. I prefer custom fixed blades. You can find some real bargains in custom working and field knives. (More so than with folders, of course.) - But I also won't pay outrageous prices for a custom fixed blade. I'm not looking for collectors, I'm looking for knives that will be put to use. For me personally, it doesn't work to pay $500 and more for a fixed custom that really won't perform all that much better as a cutting tool than less expensive knives. Sometimes a higher price can mean actually less practical utility. You can have a knife that is so expensive that youre reluctant to use it hard or are concerned you might lose it in the field. Everyone determines their own needs and budget for the purchase.
 
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atavist said:
This post is inspired by Pat's previous post about mid techs....

As a knife maker I'm obviously biased... when you like a custom design and want a knife like it but can only afford a mid tech I get that.... but why production knives? ever?

And don't say price...
My custom blades are fairly priced (not meant as a self-promotion) and I know a handful of local craftsman who make knives just because they love making knives and practically give them away...

Granted with folders there is a certain level of machining involved to get a slick action (that's why I don't make them)... so not talking about high end folders here... but why on earth buy a production fixed blade when every town has a handful of local craftsmen who make quality knives and will sale them at close to materials cost to be able to keep doing it?
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I am not sure if you are trolling here or not. It is 100% impossible for all the custom knife maker's in the world, to satisfy even 1/2 of a percent of the demand globally for knives. All the kitchen knives, the carpet cutters, the box cutters, the glovebox knives, the old timer folders, the butter knives in drawers etc etc. Most knife makers cannot even handle the small amount of orders they receive comparably, to how many knives their town's Wally World down the street from their house moves on a daily basis.

Why production knives? Because the market, and reality demand them.
 
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