Profound Cultural Question

Walosi

Walosi

Joined
Jan 10, 2001
Messages
2,618

We've had a power outage this AM, and I took advantage of the down-time to do a little clean-up on the Garud. Uncle Bill had explained the types and origins of dragons portrayed on these handles, and I began to wonder...Jeff's Kalista and Rusty's Audrey came to mind, and although I am not particulary inclined to personify my weapons (well, except for Big Sal, the .45 Colt and little Muffy, the 5-shot .357) they all seem to be named in the feminine gender. Without power, I could not call up a search, and I can't remember the subject in all the lore I've read on Nepal and India, so the question: Do Dragons have a gender?

What do I have here? A Rudy Garud or a Gertrude Garud?????

[This message has been edited by Walosi (edited 06-10-2001).]
 
That's a relief - While the Garud I have could be considered a stern and fearful masculine presence, as a feminine entity it is one ugly broad. To Rusty, it would look like a night nurse.Hehee
 
Ah yes, the nurses. Down here at Mt. Grant General they are nice, ( so nice I've probably overrated their physical attractiveness somewhat - that happens as decrepitude sets in ).

As for the nurses at Sado-Masoch Regional Med. Ctr., I'm just going to have to pick up a pair of Spyderco Harpies. ( What worked for Hannibal Lecter... )

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Uncle Bill, what are the types and origins of the dragons portrayed on the handles of the garud khukuris?

I have been wondering about it for a long time.

-Dave
 
Hi friends, hope this helps a little:

Garuda (Skt., 'eagle') is also the name of the the specific garuda that is the mount of the god Vishnu. Sometimes he's portrayed simply as a large bird, other times as a winged, beaked man, still other times as a man with a bird's head, and many other combinations besides. Several indianized cultures have adopted the Garuda as a royal symbol, including Thailand, Cambodia, Burma, Java, the Malay sultanates, and of course Nepal. Somewhat like our own use of the bald eagle here in the US, I guess, only with a more overt religious connotation.
 
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Thanks Ruel.
I was just getting ready to ask about Malaysia and the area around there.
If I am not mistaken that area also uses a River God or Spirit on the Kerises sometimes. And They are often portrayed as a beaked image.
I don't recall what the image is called at the present, but I believe the info is on Paul's Keris Website.

I won't post it here right now because I may be accused of bringing up another irresistable place where beautiful sharp things and other forms of art are offered for sale.
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But if anyone would like to see it I will chase it down and post it, but then it won't be my fault for anymore sales of personal items in order to make purchases of other items we cannot seem to live without.
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Just TZN about the last part.
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Yvsa.

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.
 
Hey Yvsa,

1. Speaking of irrestible pieces, I can't believe that I'd never seen the YCS until yesterday! I'd always hear the word, but somehow always missed the image.

Now, I just got a new job, so at the end of the month I will reward myself with my first HI khukuri, and as I was looking over the "Smoothsale" list I was absolutely stunned to find the old YCS toward the end.

I love the color contrast, and the shape of the blade! My complements on this fine piece of work, Yvsa, and in a few weeks it'll be the cornerstone of my HI collection!
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2. Mohd is of course our expert here on Malay weapons, so I'll defer to him for the details. The things usually called "garuda" hilts by Western collectors are the Tajong and Coteng from the Malay north. See Dave Henkel's page for some beautiful examples: http://members.nbci.com/DAHenkel/Tajong.htm

I have something similar, though of much lower quality, from the Riau area around W Sumatra:
kerisg.jpg
 
Putting that picture up on this forum is like leaving a stack of Playboy magazines ( with centerfolds ) in a high school locker room.
 
Interesting stuff.

Mine doesn't really look like a bird at all, more like some sort of monkey with a mullet.

It seems as if some of the handle carvers and blade engravers are allowed a fair amount of artistic license at times...
 
Dave:

Does yours resemble the carvings in the HI site, under "New For 2000"?
It appears (to these old bifocals) that the close-up (which resembles my Cairn) and the photo of the knife and sheath are two variations, and now your description (he caught a fish?). This is both welcome news, and perplexing. These carvings constitute collectible art all by themselves, IMHO, and this means a specialty side collection of Garud variations, a new set of maker's marks, the possibility of Malla Garuds, Kobra Garuds, another second mortgage, more short, sharp conversations with those snotty damn lawyers...OH, WOE.....You got pics????
 
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Ruel thanks for the kind words about the YCS!!!!
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I have to admit too being biased towards it since I did design it, but it wasn't all mine design.
I shamelessly copied the pix and examples of several old style khukuris to come up with the khukuri design, but I do have too admit that the 2 kardas and the awl is all my idea.
The YCS and her tool's is too me one of the ultimate systems anyone would need to survive just about anywhere.
And since it is one of the lighter models, one of mine comes in at 1 Lb and 11 ounces while the very first one is just a tad lighter, the YCS won't drag a person down as much as some of the heavier ones.
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And I have found it cuts like a much heavier model due I think to its speed and edge geometry.
And if you're like me and at least one other you will get a very nice feeling from using a beautiful tool for plain utilitarian tasks.
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And I thank you for the link and the pic!!!!
That is a beautiful example that you have, I would love to see all of it!!!!
And do you know what the Pamor on the blade is?

The Keris is another one of the examples of knives from other parts of the world that I dearly love.
I have 2 Keris with one being a very nice piece and in reasonably good condition, I believe it would come in as very good if one was rateing it.
The best I can figure is that is the fairly common Watermelon Rind Pamor.
I lucked into getting it at a very good price!!!
I found it in an antique shop in San Jacinto or Hemet, the two little towns sorta run together, in So Cal and paid $22.50 for it.
The other one is either very old or hasn't been at all well cared for.
The blade is badly worn, but the reason I got it and paid $50.00 for it at a gun & knife show is because of what I beleve its ivory handle that appears to be very old and the large pieces of real tortoise shell that's under the cut in the brass scabbard.

It's really interesting that the word Garud and Garuda are so close. Do they come from a base word that's common to the Hindu or am I just out in left field again, or still - as the case may be?
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Yvsa.

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.
 
>>>These carvings constitute collectible art all by themselves, IMHO, and this means a specialty side collection of Garud variations, a new set of maker's marks, the possibility of Malla Garuds, Kobra Garuds, another second mortgage, more short, sharp conversations with those snotty damn lawyers...OH, WOE.....You got pics????<<<<

Dangit... the HIKV has mutated again
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Quick, someone roll a piano down the basement stairs and block him in. Harry, reserve the padded room. Someone get the Sears delivery folks on the phone... they have a pick u... I mean delivery to make!!

Wal, those nice men in the white van are delivering that Alessi holster you have been waiting for...

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Alan

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When all else fails...JSTF :D
 
I'm guessing but I think this might be an explanation for variation in carvings. Our young Newari carver lives only about a 5 or 10 minute walk from BirGorkha. He does most of his carving at home and not at the shop. All the male members of his family are carvers -- maybe 4 or 5 guys. I think that sometimes he gets help from pop and brothers when he has a goodly amount of carving to get done. Each fellow has his own idea as to what a Garud should look like and the ideas are not always the same. Further, since this work is all done by hand even the same guy can't produce identical work from piece to piece and that's just fine from my point of view. No two the same.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
Himalayan Imports Archives (33,000 + posts)
Himalayan Imports Shopping Site

[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 06-12-2001).]
 
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