Project #10: Push Dagger

tryppyr

tryppyr

Joined
Feb 5, 2010
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I've been thumbing through a knife book and saw a push dagger. I was intrigued by the picture and started giving some thought to how it would be constructed. Since I still have a 6 inch piece of 1/4 inch thick 1095 left, I thought I might try making one.

I drew one out similar to the one pictured, with an integral guard, pinned handle (probably antler) with end caps on the antler that are also pinned and glued. I sketched it out (pardon the poor artistic skills).

Any comments before I begin cutting?

Push1.jpg


Push2.jpg
 
I am the least expert possible, but it seems that at the 6 inch length the idea of a push dagger starts to have diminishing returns. you have enough weight away from the handle that it would seem more practical to have the entire hand gripping it. it also seems that a push dagger, by virtue of the horizontal handle was meant to be more concealable. this kind of seems to defeat the purpose.

If i am totally wrong, just call cakapoo on this and write me off. it just seems to me that the physics are kind of wrong.
 
Tryp, I think that your 4 year old kid has a lot of potential to be able to do a nice drawing like that. :p
That and Cakapoo, just cause I like saying it. ;)
 
You could start your drawig fullly symetrcal by folding on the ce terline, then cutting both at once.

like the girls cut out hearts back in elementary school.



other than that, I think it may be too long,
I like the CS - about 4.5" bl
http://www.coldsteel.com/samase.html
TS-TCS12BS_540.jpg


If you plan your layout, you can use the drill press at the corners to setup nice symmetrical radius points at the key junctions.

I see you are going full tang, be sure to round off the handle corners -

Did you do up a template ?

I also like the Micheal Price San Fransisco type punch dagger
(hidden tang)

push_dagger3_858.jpg
 
Last edited:
Too long is never a problem. I can always grind more off. Too short would be. :)

Though my crappy drawing portrays it poorly, this will not be a full tang. It's closer to hidden tang that full tang. I intend to carve a channel in the handle and glue/pin the tang in place. Only the top edge of the tang will be visible.
 
Latest images. You'll note a few changes from the drawings. Also, I've been thinking about using ivory for the handle instead of antler.

Push4.JPG


Push5.JPG
 
I do love push daggers. You have a good start here. Getting your plunge-cuts cleaned up here is going to be a trick. Keep at it.
-M
 
Michael Rader said:
I do love push daggers. You have a good start here. Getting your plunge-cuts cleaned up here is going to be a trick. Keep at it.
-M
Click to expand...

Last night I spent some time cleanin those plunge lines up with my needle files. Also cleaned up the curves of the guard a bit too. Still not quite done with that yet, but there is improvement.

- Greg
 
I'm not sure exactly how you're planning the handle. I've always like a slight curvature of the handle so it fits the palm better. The Guard is almost a musthave with a blade that long just because if you hit solid object it's either going to fold up or down. It all depends if you're meaning for it to be carried for defensive purposes or not.
 
KaosX said:
The Guard is almost a must have with a blade that long just because if you hit solid object it's either going to fold up or down. It all depends if you're meaning for it to be carried for defensive purposes or not.
Click to expand...

Interesting comment. The examples Sam (Count) posted have no guard, nor does the one in Michael's avatar picture.

Frankly, I didn't give it a great deal of thought initially... I was simply going by the example I saw pictured in the book. I really should post a copy of that picture, I suppose. Anyway, the guard made sense to me for the reason you mentioned. When I saw the other push knifes, I began to think about how the palm should be strong enough to keep the blade from sliding backwards to (through) the fingers... but now your comment has me thinking about it again.

What I can say for certain is that I want the guard on this one to have a smooth surface on the side facing the fingers, and a flat surface on the side facing forward.

Regarding the handle, I was planning on shaping it to fit my palm comfortably, while remaining secure. I don't want it sliding around in my hand.

I also noticed that Rader's blade seems to be turned so the push knife is used for cutting. Not sure what to think about that. It looks cool, of course... but how would it work in a sheath next to the body? Wouldn't the handle protrude toward the body? And how would you hold it so you could apply adequate downward pressure to do the cutting?

- Greg
 
Mine was designed to be more like a claw. It would require an unusual sheath as well, but the display stand works nicely on a desk or shelf.

standard.jpg


Yours is a more traditional push dagger and the guards are quite nice. It is all about what you (or your customer) wants.
-M
 
I'll just add my perspective on your project. Since there is no scale shown or size given, I assume the dagger is 6" long.

1) Push daggers by nature need to be short and reasonably thin. A long wide dagger will be heavy and may want to "flip" back on you if used. You need a firm grip area that fits the hand snug,and as much or more mass in the handle as in the blade. Center of balance needs to be well into the handle area.

It should be small enough to fit in a concealed sheath. If it is a big dagger, there is no use for the T-Grip.

2) A guard just shaped from the bar of steel is going to look cheap. There are several ways of adding a guard to a push dagger, but what you are doing is going to look amateurish.

I would modify your dagger to a 3" blade (max) and remove the guard parts ,leaving just a step shoulder and the tang.Try for an overall length of 5". Trim the top part way down until a slotted guard shaped as you wish (like what you have started is fine), will slip over it and seat on the shoulders. Fit the handle with a snuggly mortised and pinned top.Two Corby bolts would work well,too. Shape the handle as feels good to the hand. The whole handle should fit snugly in the palm, like a cork screw, not be gripped like a door knob.
 
Currently the blade length is 4.25" and the OAL is right at 6". Sounds like it needs to lose about an inch of length and be thinned out. I'll be frank... I don't understand the suggestion about the guard. The words make sense, I just can't gel the idea in my head visually. For example, I can't fathom how a guard slipped over the blade stays attached to the step shoulder. Sounds like something that requires soldering or welding, which I'm not set up to do. Did I misread the suggestion?
 
OK,
Cut the wings off the guard part of this blade. File them back about 1/16" per side at the ricasso...like a regular blade. Trim the top handle part to match this width. Slot a guard to slip over the top and sit on the shoulders at the ricasso.....just like a regular guard. Trim the excess from your old guard part of the blade to be flush with the upper part of the guard, and fair into the handle shaft. Shape and finish the guard as you wish. Set it aside for now.

The top handle is in two parts. One is mortised to fit the rectangular top of the tang. The other is the cover. The mortise is just a slot filed into the material that allows the tang to pass through. Leave the extra metal sticking out for now. After the mortise is fitted, assemble the two pieces with glue. A few strokes with a small flat file will remove any squeeze-out in the mortise and make the tang fit again. Drill any rivet/bold holes and then take the handle off. Shape and finish it. When the blade is done, the handle and guard can then be installed .

First install the guard ( JB weld or soft silver solder), and clean up any spots that need attention.
Next pin/rivet/bolt/glue the handle on the tang top and trim any excess tang sticking out at the top. A quick sand and buff of the top will finish the job.

I will make a sketch and post it tonight.

Don't make these changes just because I say so. Only do them if you like the suggestions.
 
bladsmth said:
Don't make these changes just because I say so. Only do them if you like the suggestions.
Click to expand...

Naturally. Thanks for taking the time to draw this out. I'm interested in learning the correct methods. The methods I started with are simply what seemed obvious to me, having no basis other than intuition.

- Greg
 
i like the guard on your blade. reminds me of the klingon blade a bit. looks artsy, more like one of those hand carved knives. i dig it. you can do a lot with it. good job so far!
 
Left the drawing at work. I'll have to scan it and post tomorrow.

I like the changes a lot. The uni-guard does not look so bad now.
 
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