Proper etiquette???

T

Trouthead

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What is considered proper behavior on a knife deal. Here is what happened.

A knife was offered for sale. I made and offer by email, and received a counter offer. Pretty much a "would you take $xx.xx?"
and received a reply of "No, but I would take $xx.xx +$10.00"
I replied back , "yes I'll take it for that price, how would you like payment?" I received a reply back "sorry it is sold" This whole set of emails back and forth occured between the hours of (approx) 2:00 pm and 8:00 AM the next day a total of 18 hours.

Now certainly I understand the party with the knife has the right to sell it to anyone he cares to and certainly in his mind to whoever meets his price. But I wonder a little bit that since we had, certainly an offer , and a counter offer, shouldn't I have had some reasonable period of time to accept the counter offer before any other offers were taken.

It is not a big deal, and I won't name names, as it doesn't really qualify as an ugly deal, but I would like to know what is considered proper behavior in this case. The internet maybe slows things down a bit, as some of us only have access at work, while others have access at home.

So what is the proper etiquette in this case, is it "we have a open deal and I have to accept of reject" or "anything goes to whoever meets the price"

I'm curious as to how it should be, and sorry that I missed out on a good knife at a good price.
 
I am the person in question.I have said it once,I have said it 100 times"If you snooze you lose" and Trouthead you did just that.
At 12:41 pm yesterday I received an e/mail from you offering $150.00 for a knife I had for sale for $185.00,and is worth at least $200.00.I emailed you at 2:34 that I would take $160.00 plus shipping.
At 5:46[3 hrs and 12 minutes after I emailed you] a fellow emailed me and said he would take the knife for the$185.00 if it was not a "User".Sent him an email at 6:54 assuring him that it was not.
He emailed me at 8:42 to tell me it was a done deal[6 hrs and 8 minutes after my counter offer]
Sir you have nothing to snivel over.'You snoozed and you lost"
Free advice.Something I have been doing for 30 plus years of knife collecting,Do not snooze.
 
Nifrand,

Come on give me a just a little break. I'm pretty new at this and don't think I was snivelling (at least not too much). Yup I snoozed, (I left work and went home, and went to bed), and somebody slipped in and bought the knife. I understand snooze and lose. That's fine. I just wanted some advice as to how these matters are supposed to go, and you gave it to me.I guess I'm running with the BIG DOGS now!

Hopefully we can do buisness sometime in the future. Next time I'll be a lot quicker, as the knives I have seen you offer seem to be priced well and go fast.

The next time I'll be FAST. And I won't snivel:D

I would still like to see some other opinions.
 
Trouthead:
I cannot count the times at a knife show,that I picked up a piece and thought it was a good deal,BUT had to think about it.Walked a few steps and started to go back only to see someone else have it in their hands.Agony.Wait for them to lay ot back down.Wrong.Purchased.
Well I get over it.
Did it to a few Randalls,Loveless,Morans,ect,ect,ect.
Purchased a $1700.00 knife yesterday.Could be a good investment.Who knows.BUT I DO NOT SNOOZE.
BTW: Nice country that you live in.Fished it a few times.My ex was from Worland.I am from Montana and do a lot of flyfishing.Take care.
Randy(One of the big dogs)
 
This is just my opinion, and the way I do things, so take it for what it's worth.

If it was me, I would wait until I heard back on my counter offer, before I sold to anyone else. I would at least wait 2 days, just in case they were having problems replying, or something came up.
That's just me though, and that's the way I like to do things. After all, I'm just here having some fun, buying a few and selling a few, and I really don't want to turn it into some dog eat dog, cutthroat kind of thing.

Furthermore, I would expect the next in line to be patient enough to wait until I heard back on my counter offer...Just a good way of doing things, in my book.

Now of course, the same goes for whoever I am "haggling" with. Have the courtesy to reply and either accecpt, turn down, or continue negotiating. Do not just not bother to reply at all, as that is extremely rude, to say the least.
 
Nifrand,

Have done the same at gun shows myself. But it won't happen to me again, on the net, I'll be quicker or I'll ask for a certain amount of time to reply.

BTW was in Worland this last Saturday. An OK morning of pheasant hunting and a great Mexican lunch.
Thanks for the advice.

Joe(Trouthead)
 
At a gun show, sure, that's a bit different.

But let's say you were at the gun show, saw something you liked, and started "negotiating" a price. While your negotiating, someone else walks up, offers to buy at the asking price, and the table owner sells it out from under you, right while your standing there!
That's just plain wrong.

Now, if you made an offer, he rejected and made a counter offer, and you walked off thinking about it, that's a whole different story again.

The thing is, on the internet, working through email, is not even close to being at a gun show, talking with someone in real time, trying to work something out.

At the gun show, once you leave the table, all bets are off, but while your standing there you should have some reasonable expectation that you have first option to buy.
Here on bladeforums, where it's not real time at all, you should have first option while your negotiating, within reason.
 
Mikemck:Wait at least 2 days?I find that absurd.
I want to sell a knife,not show it off.
I may have 10 more buyers in that time.On this forum half will back out.
I have bought and sold on this forum for three years and some of the tactics I have had used on me are kind of funny.No thing.
If someone wants the knife and is the first to make the decision to buy it it is theirs.My opinion.Did not intentionally mean to pee in anyones Post Toasties.
I also sell and buy on Ebay.Never had a wierd transaction.
At knife shows it is who's money hits the table first.I have been known to buy all the knives on a makers table.And do you know what .I never haggle.Sometimes they give me a break,BUT I NEVER HAGGLE WITH KNIFEMAKERS.
 
My opinion on this sort of thing is that if someone is willing to purchase at the original offering price, they should get priority over a lower offer.

Buying/Selling through the Forum is not like walking into a retail shop or purchasing from inventory. Because of the inherent lag in when potential "buyers" log on to the forums (sometimes only every few days or once a week or less), the "seller" has to weigh the risk of a lower offer today against the possiblity that someone that hasn't seen the offering will log on an buy it for what the seller thinks it is worth.

As long as the seller does not turn the event into an auction (pitting two buyers against one another for a price higher than the initial offering price) then I think anyone purchasing at the original posted offer price should have priority.

Any other opinions on this?
 
If I were selling that knife, I might give the man a chance to respond -- unless someone mailed me an offer for my original price! which is what should happen on a reasonably busy day here ... should I wait two days for the privilege of selling for less than a fair asking price?

If you snooze, you lose. I've been watching for Sebenzas and Umfaans and Mnandis lately, and I hadn't really made up my mind what I was willing to buy. I'd click back a few hours later and there's nothing left to buy, time after time. It's not fair to the seller to make him wait.
 
Well I guess everyone has there own opinion. I don't think anybody will agree totally or say this is right or wrong. So here is my opinion.

It's for sale at my price until somebody says "I'll take it". That is face to face, email to email, or snail mail to snail mail. As a maker I have had people negotiate with me on knives, offers, counter offers, more questions, counter counter offer,want to think about it, and no reply ever again. This has happened in person and over email. So my rules are simple.

Who ever says "I'll take it", first gets it. Even if somebody comes along and offers more money 1 minute later. You meet my requirements and I will uphold the deal. But if you don't pay up and you don't have an excuse or communicate to me on my terms the knife goes up for sale again.
 
Just my opinion for what it is worth.

Guys until both have conveyed a done deal. It is fair game.
Once an offer is accepted that is another story.
Been on both sides here as a dealer and as a customer (btw I have purchased from nifrand and every knife I have seen him sell has been priced more than fairly to begin with.) As an x-dealer I can not count how many times I have been told "put that up for me" I'll be back for it. The vast majority do not come back (over 90 %). I learned to ask for a small deposit to take a knife off the table at a show unless I knew the person.

I think over the net, if you want a knife badly it is up to you to respond quickly to a counter offer (please do not take offense). To me, as a buyer, it is not worth 10 or 20 bucks of going back and forth if you really want the knife especially if it has a fair price to begin with. Walking away from a counter offer for any period of time is like walking away from a table at a knife show. The seller has no guarantee that you will return, neither does the table holder.

At this point, most of us that sell in the individual for sale area are not making a profit just rotating a knife or two. We are not dealers (hopefully) with multiples of the same item.
 
Nifrand, why do you "never haggle with knifemakers"?

This seems to be a common theme around here. Let me start off by saying that the three customs I have bought this year I paid the asking price as I felt the price was fair for what I ordered (these were knives made to order, not off the shelf). However, I would consider negotiating price with a maker if I wanted a particular piece and the price was more than I wanted to pay.

Makers are not exempt from market forces. Unprecedented economic prosperity has spurred a dramatic increase in the price of custom knives and current economic conditions may very well have the opposite effect. Look at the various for sale forums, there are many knives listed there that remain unsold that would have sold quickly 9-12 mos ago.

Thre are a few makers that will continue to be able to name their price and sell out quickly, others may not be so fortunate. Let us not forget that while it is the seller that intitially sets the price, it is the buyer that determines whether the price is acceptable.

As far as selling something via a for sale forum, the first "i'll take it" gets the deal.
 
I out a knife up for sale once. I had a guy email a lower offer, I emailed a counter offer. In between that I had another guy email and said "I will take it". I replied and said that I was negotiating with the first buyer, but if it didnt work out I would sell it to him. As it turns out, the first guy was jerking my chain. When I emailed the serious buyer, he had already found something else. A seller connot be expected to sit around while somebody decides if they want to buy or not.

I am now one of the people who will sell it to the first person to says "I'll take it". If you want to negotiate with me, then you run the risk that the knife maybe gone when you finally make up your mind. Dont sweat it trout, you hang out here for a while, and you will pick up on things pretty quick. Have fun at it.
 
I really don't know why I do not haggle.I suppose it comes from being in business for so many years.(Construction)Nothing turns me off as much is someone who I give a bid to and they try to chisel me down.You want me to do it or not.If you have a bid for less let them do it.Don't call me to fix it.(happens all the time.Or how to take them to court when they screw it up)RANT OFF
Like I say will not haggle.I have friends that are knifemakers and I don't own some of their knives.Too much money or quality is not there yet.IMO
Richard:Well said.You are one of the guys around who I have a lot of respect for.A no BS attitude to selling.BTW we did some business at one time or another.
 
I remember very well Randy. You are a pleasure to deal with, and I would not hesitate for one second to deal with you again as it went extremely smooth.
 
When making an inquiry for any item F/S on these forums, details need to be made clear from the very first correspondence. If I was interested in any knife, I would e mail and include: "... please allow me first chance and a final decision at this knife". The seller would then either agree, which would allow time for specs and details during the correspondence. Or state: "Sorry but the first I' ll take it gets the knife". Which ever way is decided, at least it is clear from the beginning. So there isn' t any real right or wrong way in this particular instance. Just a difference in which ways we all choose to do business.

Personally, I have always allowed a reasonable time for any inquiry to come to a decision. Even if it were not asked. And would advise them and keep them up to date if there are others in line for that particular knife. If any knife is being sold for a friend, which I have done numerous times, then I set the guidelines accordingly. But even then I have given extended time for some sales I' ve made in the past.

There were several past experiences where I had requested first chance at a knife and was seemingly close to sealing the deal. But the seller sold it to another in the last minute! Pretty lousy I think most would agree. But hey, it' s only a knife. No need to post here on the G, B, and U. Just keep your own seperate list...

Trouthead, welcome to the forums.

Nakano
 
Thanks to all including Nifrand, I was just looking for some majority opinion as to what I should expect. If there is a tendency towards a majority opinion I think it is "act fast, and you snooze you lose". For sure I am not trying to tell anyone how to do buisness, and as one can see Nifrand and I have had a civil exchange on this matter.

Hopefully no one will get out of this exchange that I am somehow putting Nifrand in the Ugly. NOT THE CASE. Please note that I didn't use any identifying info in my first post. He came forward on his own to discuss this topic. I appreciate his candor. I would do buisness with him, in the future and certainly know how to go about it now.

As an above poster put it, it is just a knife. Just needed a lesson in what I should expect, and I got one. And it was free, as I just wanted the knife for my own use!!! Had I had email at home that JB would be headed my way.
 
Good topic Trouthead.

Agree "Richard". First "I'll take it" gets it. "Time", on offers/counter offers are at the discretion of the seller IMHO.

Done quite a few deals and met GREAT people here. "Never" had a problem except one dealer who bought a blade I was selling. The company name will not be mentioned as I have more integrity than to participate in that crap.

Scenario: Dealer and I had communicated back a forth a couple of times about a blade I was selling. Tired of haggling, made the dealer a final offer at about 3:00 AM. Checked the e-mail again at about 8:00 AM and had no response, but another buyer had e-mailed and said "I'll take it". Dealer goes ballistic when I tell him its sold.

Threatens to "ruin" my name and reputation because he is "annointed" with "time" in the industry and I am a "newbie". I thought it very childish and pretty revealing of his character frankly. Especially since "I called him" to try to make it right somehow. Called the actual buyer, explained the situation, offered to do anything to make it right because the dealer was screaming and wanted the blade. Buyer agreed to let it go because we had done business before, and he didn't want to see me have a problem with a crybaby.

This dealer has an ego ten million miles long and thinks his "time" in the industry gives him some "right of passage" to "abuse", "antagonize", "threaten", and "belittle" others. Bad idea for any community, club, sport, etc. Other communities in which I participate and have far more experience, welcome and educate newcomers, they don't abuse and threaten them if they make mistakes. Unless your swept with a muzzle, then its firm, but not threatening.

Felt terrible for the actual buyer and if I had it to do all over again, would have told the dealer where to go.

BTW: You know who you are, and I have a "private" (because I am not like you) challenge since you have been such an unwarranted jerk to me. Let's put on one set of clothes (no pack), grab the blade of your choice, and go to the mountains for a week. We'll see who comes back to the car first. Then you can show me how much experience you have counting on your blade, instead of selling it behind your nice computer.
 
Sitting hear smiling about how you gentlemen handled this.
Have fun!
Gus
 
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