property dispute with my neighbor

[timcsaw]

Cough... Cough... Concertina... Cough... Cough...

thanks

Never had much need of the stuff in my Warthog....

I did have a Tina (Turner) in concert tape that I used to listen to though (Tina... Concert... Concert.Tina... get it? )

 

[Mountainman38]

I feel for you in your fence line dispute. Sounds like you've gotten some good advice about legal issues, so I won't add to that.

As far as surveying goes, let me the perspective with you of someone who's done a lot of surveying. First, "his buddy with a GPS" is pure nonsense. He's trying to spew some technical sounding terms to try to scare you off, and make himself feel smug. Hand held units are only accurate to within 15 feet or so, which is useless. Besides, unless he pulls maps and somehow figures out the exact latitude and longitude, his hand held unit isn't going to be any use.

He sounds like a bully -- I'd ignore his blatherings. You did the right thing in getting a licensed surveyor to check your line. The only thing that will hold up in court is to have an actual surveyor put in monuments on your line. It's not much of a crime, but in California where I learned to survey, it's against the law to pull out monuments, since they're legal limits.

As far as GPS surveying goes -- it's a huge part of the surveying industry, and getting more common all the time. 5 years ago, when I started using it, the base station for a differential system was a small transmitter mounted on a tripod -- about 5 feet off the ground. This was put over a known put, often a state benchmark. From this base station you have a 6 mile radius to work within. The portable unit mounts on a rangepole, is quite small, and weighs no more than 10 pounds altogether. Accuracy used to be on the order of a tenth by a tenth (tenth of a foot). Sometimes it was as good as a couple of hundredths of a foot, depending on satellite coverage, which is just as good as conventional surveying. If the coverage wasn't good, the accuracy dropped quite a bit. Under tree cover and in mountainous country, conventional surveying is still necessary.

I've gotten out of surveying the last couple of years, but I understand that there are more satellites available now, allowing for even better accuracy.

 

[shootist16]

The fence people came yesterday to install the fence. Neighbor came out and said that he had decided to have a real survey done since he didn't agree with mine. I told him I thought that was a good idea as it would keep us both honest. He then said that he had spoken to the guy that he bought his house from. He said the seller showed up after three years to get some mail and "noticed the pins". Neighbor said the seller said he installed the flower bed "two to three feet" from the line. I told the fence company to put the fence three to six inches off of the line. My neighbor then asked me why I was "grabbing up so much yard". I told him i was just fencing my yard. He said that normally people put a fence a few feet from the line as stated by a gentleman's agreement. he said he was going to have a hard time completing his pond with the fence "only six inches" from the line.

His surveyor showed up as the fence company was putting up the fence. The result... my surveyor was confirmed as being right.

I am going to send him a certified letter stating that I am not relinquishing ownership of the property on his side of the fence, but i will allow him to occupy it. I am doing this as a defense against any adverse possession claim he may later try to make.

 

[Bob W]

I told the fence company to put the fence three to six inches off of the line.

I don't understand why you'd do that. Every yard fence I've seen is either straddling the property line or built right up to it.

He said that normally people put a fence a few feet from the line as stated by a gentleman's agreement.

I call BS on that. I've never heard of anyone giving a "few feet" of their yard to the neighbors. That would be stupid.

he said he was going to have a hard time completing his pond...

Tough.

It is hard to build a pond on someone elses' property after they install a fence, isn't it?

--------------------------
Just curious what sort of fence you built? Our yard has a 5' - 6' concrete wall currently, but if I were building a new fence I'd use chain-link. Keeps pets and kids in, other peoples' pets and kids out, can't blow over in the wind, can't rot or burn, and can be disguised with a few decorative plants and climbing vines.

 

[Kn00b]

I don't understand why you'd do that. Every yard fence I've seen is either straddling the property line or built right up to it..

I'm with the original poster on this one and think he took the right route on his build (just my personal, non-professional opinion though). Most fences I see in this area leave just a bit (a foot maybe) of leeway on the neighbors side. I think it has to do more with 'playing it safe'. What happens if you get some fence lean over time and your fence that is posted to the ground right on the line leans a couple of inches into the 'airspace' on your neighbor's lawn who decides to build similairly? Your fence top is now in his way on his property.

A lot of areas have setback guidelines in place for just this reason. I've heard anecdotally of setback guidelines for mailboxes and fences even in many communities (again I'm no expert in the area though).

Our yard has a 5' - 6' concrete wall currently, but if I were building a new fence I'd use chain-link. Keeps pets and kids in, other peoples' pets and kids out, can't blow over in the wind, can't rot or burn, and can be disguised with a few decorative plants and climbing vines.

Hey, to each their own. But, chain link fences are generally seen as eye sores and can detract from your home's value. Many subdivisions actually expressly forbid them in their covenants for this reason.

 

[ld57]

Hey, to each their own. But, chain link fences are generally seen as eye sores and can detract from your home's value. Many subdivisions actually expressly forbid them in their covenants for this reason.

My neighbor has a chain link fence that was pretty old, in good shape, but rusty, etc. He painted it black and the difference is amazing. As strange as it seems it's a lot less noticeable.

 

[Bob W]

A lot of areas have setback guidelines in place for just this reason. I've heard anecdotally of setback guidelines for mailboxes and fences even in many communities (again I'm no expert in the area though).

That makes sense. I guess I was thinking of a fence being joint property in places where both landowners must share the cost of the fence. I can't tell for sure, but I think our wall is built right up to the property line, with the wall's bulk being on our side.

Hey, to each their own. But, chain link fences are generally seen as eye sores and can detract from your home's value. Many subdivisions actually expressly forbid them in their covenants for this reason.

Considering how crappily most wooden fences are built around here, I'm glad most people go with the chain-link.
And ~anything's~ better than those junky plastic fences sold at Home Depot...

I was just curious anyway.

 

[Bob W]

My neighbor has a chain link fence that was pretty old, in good shape, but rusty, etc. He painted it black and the difference is amazing. As strange as it seems it's a lot less noticeable.

Plant a few trumpet vines or Virginia Creeper, and the chain-link is hidden completely. Plus, chain-link fences usually have that top horizontal support pipe that make them much sturdier than other fences.

The biggest advantage is that wind strong enough to knock over a solid fence blows through chain link. An important consideration if you live in New Mexico, or a hurricane zone.

 

[Kn00b]

Considering how crappy most wooden fences are built around here, I'm glad most people go with the chain-link.

Fair enough, I've definately seen some aged wooden fences left up past their prime that were in quite a state.

You mentioned the concrete fence in your area. I've seen a few in the Southwest on 'Zillow' that look surprisingly good. I always wondered why they weren't used more in other areas of the country. Seems like great potential for durability, privacy, and these days a lot of different finish options (stucco, and ivy planting among them).

Just realized I started derailing the thread. Sorry about that.

 

[shootist16]

I don't understand why you'd do that. Every yard fence I've seen is either straddling the property line or built right up to it.


Just curious what sort of fence you built? Our yard has a 5' - 6' concrete wall currently, but if I were building a new fence I'd use chain-link. Keeps pets and kids in, other peoples' pets and kids out, can't blow over in the wind, can't rot or burn, and can be disguised with a few decorative plants and climbing vines.

My neighborhood can't have chain link. I had a 6' cedar privacy fence built.

I wanted it as close to the line as possible without being on the line. I don't want the fence to become community property.

 

[shootist16]

It is hard to build a pond on someone elses' property after they install a fence, isn't it?

He asked me yesterday why I was building the fence. I quoted Robert frost and said, "good fences make good neighbors". The fence contractor started laughing. My neighbor didn't think it was funny.

 

[Bob W]

You mentioned the concrete fence in your area. I've seen a few in the Southwest on 'Zillow' that look surprisingly good. I always wondered why they weren't used more in other areas of the country. Seems like great potential for durability, privacy, and these days a lot of different finish options (stucco, and ivy planting among them).

Our's is actually a cinderblock wall that, unfortunately, isn't historically accurate for the home. The yard is sloped, so in some places the wall is 4' tall, and 6' tall in other places. Lots of yards in the southwest are walled in, entire neighborhoods are built that way. It's a lot different from the open 'community' yards of the Midwest. Sometimes it feels like living in a compound, but it does give a maximum amount of privacy and security, as if the yard an extension of the house. It still doesn't keep the bears out though.

We've tried to camoflage our wall, or at least break up the monotony of it, with plants and vines. Trumpet vines, climbing ivy, russian sage, purple winter creeper, small trees, etc.

My neighborhood can't have chain link. I had a 6' cedar privacy fence built.

I wanted it as close to the line as possible without being on the line. I don't want the fence to become community property.

Makes perfect sense. Glad you've gotten it worked out. It's amazing how much stress and anxiety can be caused by a single inconsiderate or obnoxious neighbor...

 

[Bob W]

He asked me yesterday why I was building the fence. I quoted Robert frost and said, "good fences make good neighbors". The fence contractor started laughing. My neighbor didn't think it was funny.

I'm not that subtle. I would have answered, "To keep you out of my yard."

Being blunt and insensitive is a flaw of mine, or so says Wife.

 

[shootist16]

It's amazing how much stress and anxiety can be caused by a single inconsiderate or obnoxious neighbor...

You are right. I even hate going in my back yard now. I feel confident that I'm right, but there is a lot of tension over the whole thing. I find myself worrying about what he will pull next. He acts like he is the victim because I wouldn't let him build his structure in my yard.

 

[Triton]

You are right. I even hate going in my back yard now. I feel confident that I'm right, but there is a lot of tension over the whole thing. I find myself worrying about what he will pull next. He acts like he is the victim because I wouldn't let him build his structure in my yard.

That's because you are a decent person... him.. not so much...

 

[Esav Benyamin]

You are right. I even hate going in my back yard now. I feel confident that I'm right, but there is a lot of tension over the whole thing. I find myself worrying about what he will pull next. He acts like he is the victim because I wouldn't let him build his structure in my yard.

That's the beauty of an answer like, "To keep you out of my yard." It puts it all in proper perspective: your yard, he should keep out.

Being blunt and insensitive is the only way of getting through to someone like that. Any accommodation he will take as a possible opening to try something else.

 

[Ronin1]

I very much agree with powernoodle. Get a lawyer now, not tomorrow, not next week. This thing has the potential to get out of hand. Nip it in the bud via the legal system and limit your contact with the neighbor.

Not knowing where you are we can only presume that your court system is typical of most states. A temporary restraining order (TRO) can be issued without a hearing by the court upon a showing of potential irreparable injury (tearing up your property and trespass) if the order is not issued. They are typically valid for 10 days or until a hearing is held to hear the merits of the matter with the other side having the opportunity to be present. What you are after is typically called a "status quo ante" order, which, in plain English, puts everything on hold until it is sorted out.

Some states have laws against removing surveyor's pins. They are occasionally criminal laws. Also mention this to your lawyer.

You may want to look into whether what the neighbor wants to do (even if entirely on his property) is permitted under the local zoning ordinances and/or deed restrictions in the neighborhood. If it is not permitted under the zoning code he would have to request a variance to do it and that normally gives adjoining property owners, including you, the opportunity to submit written comments and appear at the hearing on the matter.

Do you have a homeowners' association? If so ask about what restrictions may be in place in terms of having to apply to an architecture committee (or whatever) for approval and determine what the complaint process is through the association.

Additionally, you may want to discuss with your lawyer the possibility of also filing suit against the neighbor for creating a nuisance by creating the waterfall because of the noise and the height of it as being a nuisance. What constitutes a nuisance varies from state to state, but generally follows common principles.

Get going and good luck!

P.S. Get a locking mail box.

P.P.S. If you do have a fence installed have it set back from the property line a few inches so that the neighbor can not connect to it or any such thing without your permission. Make sure that your fence meets local guidelines as well.

 

[Cougar Allen]

It's always fun to see how many people post without reading the thread ...

 

[Gollnick]

and can be disguised with a few decorative plants and climbing vines.

Most of the fence surrounding my back and side yards is buried under English Ivy. I love the look of it and it's absolutely carefree in that it needs no water or fertilizer and drops no leaves or seed pods or anything. But it is very aggressive and spreads like wildfire. At least half of my lawn work is Ivy control.

As for sending the neighbor a "registered letter," I just don't think that will work. Just sending someone a letter doesn't change the law. I really urge you to spend a few hundred more and consult a real estate attorney in your area.

 

[Grim/Don]

thanks

Never had much need of the stuff in my Warthog....

I did have a Tina (Turner) in concert tape that I used to listen to though (Tina... Concert... Concert.Tina... get it? )

Off topic for the thread... Warthog! My favorite plane! We love seeing them at the air-shows at Whiteman AFB.

PS... Thank you for your service.:thumbup: