Pros and Cons of Competition Finish?

fitzOdaggers

fitzOdaggers

Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
1,157
I was hoping to hear any complaints or praise you guys have in regards to unfinished INFI. I know it develops a distinct "patina" over time but does this present any problems???? Any pics of aged and used Competition blades would be cool to see:D Thanks guys!!!
 
pro's:
-sharper thinner edge, better cutting action
-easier to clean the blade when it rusts, you can scotchbrite it or sand it

con's:
-sharper thinner edge, easier to damage
-rusts faster in all area's, requires more cleaning
-rusts under the handles because the entire thing is uncoated


most of the other benefits such as a slightly lighter blade for better balance will be small and you'll have to use it a lot to get a feel for them. right off the bat though, you'll find it slices better, dents out faster and rusts more. my biggest problem with it is the tangs. I would rather there was something on them, even a layer of resin epoxy to keep rust away. the idea is that the customer will never disassemble the handles, hence tube fasteners, so the handles should be set up to avoid rust under the scales at all costs.

it's not o1, it won't rust while your looking at it, but I have to 1000 grit sand my sr101 rat tail at least once every 3 weeks because it starts rusting. for general use, I'd expect the same out of competition grade finishes, expect to have to do rust detail about once a month if you use it daily.
 
Thanks for the info:)

do you know if the Double Cut or Satin have the same corrosion issues, it is my understanding that after the bead blasting or sanding no coating is applied to the INFI
 
fitzOdaggers said:
Thanks for the info:)

do you know if the Double Cut or Satin have the same corrosion issues, it is my understanding that after the bead blasting or sanding no coating is applied to the INFI
Click to expand...

any uncoated infi will rust. the comp finish seems to rust more readily, im guessing because the dimples and other "pits" tend to hold moisture, as opposed to a dc or satin which are much smoother and even.

ive gotten rust on satin blades after leaving them out camping overnight in fairly humid weather (everything was covered in a layer of dew in the mornings).

but i also tend to leave my smaller edc blades stored in leather sheaths, and have never had any rust issues with them as a result.
 
most of the rust on my knives comes from cutting food and then not washing them afterwards. you leave a bit of tomato sauce or apple fluid on a blade, it'll do some damage over time.

the satin blades and dc blades will rust, but the dc blades can't really be cleaned without messing up the dc finish if the rust is significant. you can use a cloth with polishing compound to minimize the noticeable damage to the finish - but almost anything you do to it will end up smoothing down the bead blasted appearance, except re-bead blasting it yourself.

I vote mirror polish is the way to go :p:thumbup::thumbup:
 
I like the comp finish . I grew up taking care of carbon steel blades rust is none issue with maintenance and the coatings eventually wear off.
 
Satin/doublecut infi= slightly better than similarly finished ATS34 rust resistance, and no pitting. Comp finish= faster than bead blasted 1095 rusting. The upside is that the rust never really penetrates very far, and the decarb soaks in oil almost like parkerizing, if it's a convex or flat ground blade you can usually remove the decarb layer without too much hassle. Corrugated bevel knives are a pain :barf: The whole idea behind comp finish knives is to provide the cheapest, quickest finish possible on a knife for a user that isn't particularly concerned about appearance or other non-performance aspects (I love it myself, saves me the trouble of stripping the coating).
 
Cons - Decarb.

Pros - you can abuse the heck out of 'em and not worry about the pretty factor.

When the CE finishes were coming out I wish the issue of the decarb layer had been a known fact. I haven't had any real issues with the decarb other than on my Satin Jack. I have a little bit on a CE HellRazor but it isn't as bad as the Satin Jack.

I worked the Satin Jack with some 1000 grit after finding the initial decarb rust layer and thought I had the decarb off. I took the Satin Jack outside with me in a sheath that came with a Becker BK7 for about an hour. It was cold and snow was on the ground and I had the Satin Jack out and it got wet and wiped off on jeans and put back in the sheath. I was out for about 45 minutes more after it got wet and dryed.

When I went back inside and took the knife out it had rust forming on the surface - within 45 minutes.

I had seen pics of this from another poster - I think Jeremy Horton's CE HellRazor - and though that was incredible. I couldn't believe it when mine did it either.

Getting the decarb off ends up leaving the blades sanitized - the Busse logo and the "2008 Special Edition" end up off the blade on the ones I've actively worked the decarb off of.

I have a few CEs that haven't showed any issues with rusting with no real active decarb removal other than good wiping downs.

The CEs are also generally less expensive because they lack the finishing/prep work. Just slabs and the convex edge and they are ready to go.
 
Satin finish is GOOD!!!

INFI with a satin finish resists rust reasonably well for non-stainless. But, it can and still will rust.
INFI with a satin finish looks nice.

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Competition Edges are very good! :thumbup:

But, Competition finish is NOT good (IMO). :thumbdn:

Competition finish is VERY ugly and very prone to rust. Unfortunately, the decarb layer is left on the competition finish and it helps cause rust VERY readily. The competition finish rusts more readily than satin 1095, O1 and many other highly prone to rust finishes. And I would say it rusts a few times easier at that! :eek: :(

I don't like coatings, so when the Competition finishes came out I thought it might be a good idea since I strip my blades eventually anyway. The problem is me getting around to it.

At least I get a competition edge...

Stripping the coating with a chemical stripper is VERY easy. It requires just a few minutes and no skill.

I want satin finish. Not ugly pits prone to rust.

With a competition blade, I still have to dis-assemble the handle to properly satin finish the blade. So, still a PITA as much as satin finishing a CG blade.

Here is rust that grew on my HR while stored INSIDE in a drawer! :eek: :mad:


Busse-HRwithRust1d.jpg


Busse-HRwithRust1c.jpg


Busse-HRwithRust1b.jpg


Busse-HRwithRust1a.jpg



The above HR with Competition finish and pits was in a drawer along-side other blades that I had stripped and satin coated that had NO problems. Further, there were satin SR-101 blades, satin O1 blades, satin 1095 blades, satin 0170-6 blades and other steels that didn't have problems.

Apparently, the decarb is the main culprit. But, I am sure the pits don't help either.

I WISH Jerry would provide Competition edges combined with decent satin finishes at decent prices. $20 - $40 above CG is more than reasonable IMO.

I don't care for or need all of the LE #'s and such to mark-up blade $200 - $330.


.
 
I have not had any rust issues yet with my satin infi. Even when put away wet and dirty. Pool water on my satin GW (had to dive in and rescue a drowning girl in my street clothes). Amidst ruining my cell, and drying out my wallet stuff, I did not even think about drying off the knife. Pulled it out hours later, and still damp. No sign of rust. Put my FBMLE away damp and dirty while camping, forgot about it till weeks later. Still had pitch and grime on the blade, but no hint of patina at all. Soap and water took the pitch off no problem. (I know it can rust, and I have seen rust on satin infi in pictures, especially in a salt air environment but it just is not as rust aggressive as some steels).

I really like the CE's, but if I bought one, I would remove all the decarb for sure. I don't mind a knife with patina, and in fact have applied patina with mustard/hotsauce to a 5160 steel knife. If you are used to caring for a rust prone steel, then no big deal for you. If you are lazy like me, then just take all the decarb off, and don't worry about the rust as much.
 
Thanks for all the wisdom guys, i am hoping to put in a custom shop order next week and i wanted to weigh my options.

i really like the look of the Competition blades and i dont mind the corrosion issues.

the one thing that i didnt even think of was the potential of rust forming under the handle scales, an area that i cant get to to maintain.

this seems like reason enough to coat the blade.

I wonder if you could get a custom shop order with just the handle coated???? that would solve that problem i would think
 
fitzOdaggers said:
Thanks for all the wisdom guys, i am hoping to put in a custom shop order next week and i wanted to weigh my options.

i really like the look of the Competition blades and i dont mind the corrosion issues.

the one thing that i didnt even think of was the potential of rust forming under the handle scales, an area that i cant get to to maintain.

this seems like reason enough to coat the blade.

I wonder if you could get a custom shop order with just the handle coated???? that would solve that problem i would think
Click to expand...


What exactly is it that you like about the Competition blades???

Do you like and want the Competition edge? Some people can add that edge themselves if they are knowledgeable about re-profiling blades. It can be done by hand, but will take a long time by hand. Most use a belt sander. There are MANY threads and topics on this. I wouldn't recommend to someone who doesn't research, read and PRACTICE a lot first. Otherwise send it to someone like Ban.

Do you just like the pits and dimples? If so, you don't need to pay custom shop prices, just buy a CG coated blade. Go to your local hardware or paint store and get a quart of paint stripper. I use a "Gel" type - not to be confused with paint thinner.

Apply the stripper liberally with a brush to the areas you want to remove the coating. The coating will bubble off in about 5-10 minutes depending on typed of stripper.

Scrape the bubble layer of goop off with a scraper.

Then lightly buff the blade for a few minutes with a 3m pad.....

This process will leave the coating under the scales.

If you soak the whole blade, IMO, first you waste a lot of paint stripper because it doesn't require being soaked. Brushing on thick works excellent and will completely remove the coating.
Second, the soaking probably get a little bit more of the coating under the scales. - although I doubt it gets too much under the scales.

The Competition blades are not coated under the scales and obviously the decarb is left under the scales which obviously promotes rust. :mad: - In all fairness, the rust that develops under scales would never in most people life-times amount to enough to cause structural or integrity damage to the tang. But, I still have issues with it. To each their own.


If you don't want all of that, do want Competition finish and don't want decarb under the scales and you are going to purchase from the custom shop, I would HIGHLY recommend discussing it with them and requesting they grind the decarb off of the tang under the scales.

- A potential issue with grinding the decarb off the tang, but leaving the dimples at the ricasso would be how to grind a line to match the scallops of the scales. - I doubt this is very realistic.

So, stripping a coated blade might be the best solution.

Once you get the decarb off, the "clean" INFI really does seem to be pretty decent against resisting rust. (* Although, satin INFI will still rust. I have seen it and so have others. I know there are a lot of stories out there of people talking about all they have done to their knives without having any rust. Great. I am not arguing about that and I believe them. INFI is reasonably resistant to rust. But, INFI can and will rust in the right conditions.)

While the "Clean" INFI is reasonably resistant to rust, I am very convinced that the decarb coated INFI will rust like madness!

.
 
I sanded my competition grade jackhammer with 1000 to 1500 grit abrasives. It's hard to clean the ridges of the CBT. After sanding and cloeaning I finished with ren wax and have had no problems with the finish. I think it's most necessary to remove the decarb layer
 
As far as Competittion finish is concerned, not the edge mind you, I'd say;
"Pros: None. Cons: Everything." :barf:
 
There is a "pro" to the comp finish, it's already so ugly you don't mind beating on it as much as a nicely finished satin blade.
 
i still stand that the biggest problem is under the handles.

if you prefer an uncoated blade, but don't like the decarb finish - you can work on it yourself and get it to a nice satin faster then you could a coated blade, and if you have a set of flap belts or wire brush or various other pieces of finishing gear, you can get it up to satin in 15 minutes or less. but you can't fix the tang when it starts rusting without disassembling the handles.
 
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