Pros and Cons of Competition Finish?

[Soulrack223]

There is a "pro" to the comp finish, it's already so ugly you don't mind beating on it as much as a nicely finished satin blade.

I understand your point but for me, if a Busse's been designated as a user, I never mind beating on wood with it.

 

[DWRW]

i still stand that the biggest problem is under the handles.

if you prefer an uncoated blade, but don't like the decarb finish - you can work on it yourself and get it to a nice satin faster then you could a coated blade, and if you have a set of flap belts or wire brush or various other pieces of finishing gear, you can get it up to satin in 15 minutes or less. but you can't fix the tang when it starts rusting without disassembling the handles.

I agree with the biggest problem being under the handle. Because of that (if you read my post #14 above), I recommend going with a Coated CG version and stripping it yourself. That way there is a coating under the scales.

You mention that it is faster to get a decarb finish down to clean INFI than a coated blade. Which is true. But, only by about 15 minutes or so. Stripping the coating is VERY easy and only takes about 10-15 minutes tops with a chemical gel type paint stripper. Considering how EASY it is to strip of the coating and it doesn't really take much effort and NO skill or previous experience or practice required, if that extra 15 minutes of "time" to strip the coating down to the decarb layer and then be reasonably close to a Competition finish, the value of the coating under the scales (that you don't get with a Competition finished blade) outweighs the time IMO. :thumbup:



I am STILL and will ALWAYS be hoping for reasonably priced satin finished blades without the decarb please!.

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[DWRW]

Ugly, please take one more look.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Glad you like it. :thumbup:

I like the Competition Edge. I think a well profiled, sharp, functional, smooth curved transition of a nicely convexed edge is a thing of BEAUTY!!! :thumbup:


I don't really like polished blades. But, I do like polished edges!


However, I still say the Competition "Finish" is horribly ugly! I don't even like coated blades and I think the Sage is much nicer looking than the Competion finish.

I still WAY prefer satin!!!! :thumbup: I wish satin finished INFI was affordable like the satin finishes provided by 99% of all other knife makers in the world.

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[macgregor22]

They cut like hell but I have put some dents and even a tear in the edge under normal use hunting this year.
To fix it I took a spoon and pushed towards the edge and bent it back, almost good as new.
I love my hell razor.

 

[PeterPHWS]

Here is a picture of my CE Jackhammer

I have re-profiled the convex edge to a sharper less obtuse angle and sharpened the swedge so it can perform as an obtuse edge for ferro rod strikes and bone work on dressing game such as an Atlas joint split.

As a fighter the knife can now cut on both sides but I doubt I would need that feature. It does make the knife easy to remove though...you can cut both ways to pull it out and the grooves would help prevent any vacuum "suck" on such a wound.

The knife has a dull finish apart from the edges and I like that. Rust should not be an issue if properly looked after. If de-carb is a big concern get an oven cleaner Brillo Pad and give the knife a good scrubbing...this will remove most or all of it and the "pink" chemicals in those oven cleaners make short work of food prep stains...tanin stains from bark or sap...or get dried blood out of the grooves. They are cheap and work with elbow grease like a Scotchbrite Wheel on a grinder.

If you are really concerned about the rust...you could get the knife Double Cut in a beadblaster. I would go for a glass bead finish as opposed to using sand. It will dull the edges though and these will have to be restored. I just did a NMFBM like this after stripping a combat finish. These combat finishes now seem to have a beadblasted substance under the paint. Not sure what it is but it is a devil to remove before beadblasting. So for me a CE finish is cheaper...less work to prep the knife if you want to do your own finish...and even on it's own is a good alternative to D/C so long as you have sorted the De-Carb out or look after it properly so it is not an issue.

I have to say though that I prefer a factory D/C finish out of all of those available....but they are not often done on some knives. I got this knife because I liked the knife...not because I prefer a CE finish.

 

[shunsui]

I just did a NMFBM like this after stripping a combat finish. These combat finishes now seem to have a beadblasted substance under the paint. Not sure what it is but it is a devil to remove before beadblasting.

As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, ALL new coated blades have the Decarb layer under the coating. I'm just wondering if rust will start on the Decarb layer near the edge and run up under the coating like an underground coal fire.

 

[DWRW]

As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, ALL new coated blades have the Decarb layer under the coating. I'm just wondering if rust will start on the Decarb layer near the edge and run up under the coating like an underground coal fire.

Not to any significant degree enough to justify concern. Rust is "oxidation" of steel. For steel to rust or oxidize, water or air containing moisture must contact the areas of steel to rust.

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Here is a very good definition of rust:


"Rust is scientifically called oxidation, which occurs when oxygen comes in long-term contact with certain metals. Over time, the oxygen combines with the metal at an atomic level, forming a new compound called an oxide and weakening the bonds of the metal itself. If the base metal is iron or steel, the resulting rust is properly called iron oxide. Rusted aluminum would be called aluminum oxide, copper forms copper oxide and so on.

The main catalyst for the rusting process is dihydrogen oxide, but we know it better as water. Iron or steel structures may appear solid, but water molecules can easily penetrate the microscopic pits and cracks in any exposed metal. The hydrogen atoms present in water can combine with other elements to form acids, which will eventually cause more metal to be exposed. If sodium is present, as is the case with saltwater, corrosion will likely occur more quickly. Meanwhile, the oxygen atoms combine with metallic atoms to form the destructive oxide compound. As the atoms combine they weaken the metal, making the structure brittle and crumbly."

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The decarb layer won't just automatically rust on its own. It still rusts via oxidation. It just obviously rusts WAY easier than regular INFI. It still need water and or moisture to rust. Although, mine rusted in a drawer with just moderate air humidity. In all fairness, the humidity may have been a little higher than normal as I live in Houston with high humidity and we were without electricity for a few days from Ike. So, inside the house and drawer humidity may have been a little higher than a typical homes humidity.

Still, the coating will to a large degree keep out the moisture. It is very hard for moisture to penetrate under the coating laterally to any significant depth.


However, on a Competition blade, there are often sufficient gaps between the handle material and blade to allow moisture to penetrate and be trapped under the scales. Also, micarta has some "whicking" properties. G10 not so much.

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Like rust, fire requires oxygen. So, fire and rust have a lot in common.

Underground coal fires still require require oxygen to burn. Apparently, most underground coal fires draw their oxygen through cracks, fissures and coal mine shafts to allow them to keep smoldering.

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One might naturally be concerned about rusting the decarb layer as you wear away the coating. But, it really isn't that big a deal. As you wear the coating, you will also wear away the decarb layer. Once the decarb layer is removed, INFI is again pretty wasy to maintain and pretty reasonably resistant to rust for a non-stainless steel.

As mentioned by many already, if you have a Competition blade, it is probably best to sand off the decarb layer. Because of the grooves in CBT blades, 3M type pads are much easier to get into the grooves than sandpaper.

Unfortunately, with Competition blades, the tang areas under the handles will likely rust over time with use. I SERIOUSLY don't expect the tangs to rust to failure or any level of concern unless left in the most extreme humid conditions for MANY many years. - Most likely well beyond any of our piddly life-spans. Keep in mind, the decarb layer is very thin with INFI underneath.


*** I think it is very worth mentioning that while the decarb layer is very prone to rust, this would primarily only result in a "SURFACE" layer of very thin rust. Ugly on the surface, but just on the surface.
INFI will rust, but at a MUCH slower rate than the decarb. So, once the surface layer of decarb has rusted, the rust process slows WAY down.

Much like the initial decarb layer, if the decarb layer were to rust, it also could very easily be sanded of the thin layer of rusted decarb and be left with reasonably/to pure clean INFI.

So, don't worry about it too much. :thumbup:


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[Uncle_Jarvis]

I like rusty squatches !!