prosecutor wants help

R

russ leffler

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Aug 17, 2005
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I am a prosecutor in Ohio, I have had afew knife cases over the years. I now have a horrible one where an 11 year old girl ends up with a4.8 inch Fisker single blade in the middle of her chest, sharp edge towards the chest. Tjhe coronor says its a single entrance wound, but twice as wide as blade with 5 seperate wound tracks some in different directions with two almost out the little girl's back. Her foster father says girl was thretening family and herself. I am afraid of a suicide defense. Can an 11 year old have the strenght to do this?
 
That is terrible. I can't imagine a little girl being able to do that willingly at all. My condolences to all those who are affected by this tragedy.
 
Nixelplix said:
That is terrible. I can't imagine a little girl being able to do that willingly at all. My condolences to all those who are affected by this tragedy.
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I second that.
It does not seem reasonable to me from what you are describing. But again, all the facts are not in front me either.
It is a tragedy either way.
 
How tragic and sad.

I'm no expert but I'll offer some thoughts on this in the hope that it helps you to fry the SOB that did it. It would be easier to prove with more specific info but...

IMO, unless she has some serious mental defect where there is a documented extreme high tolerance for pain I doubt she could have done that to herself. Not so deep - not without having fallen on the knife or something... And then it's kinda hard to explain how she got a wound so wide & with the 5 seperate wound channels. How'd that allegedly happen?

No, I doubt anyone will buy the suicide angle. You may want to experiment with a side of beef & some different theories as to how she could have accomplished a suicide if you want to dispell the idea though - you may want to look at the angle of the stab, combined with location and measure this against the length of her arms - it may be physically impossible for her to have done it to herself.

Good luck!
 
Not only would strength be an issue, I doubt anyone would have the pain tolerance to do soemthing like that more then once.
 
There are a lot of knowledgeable people in regards to knives on this website but wouldn't you be better off asking a forensic pathologist questions like that?
 
That would indicate the knife was partially drawn and then stabbed again five times if I read the description right. Pretty extreme for someone to do to themself.

From a legal perspective however "A bunch of guys on the internet said it isn't possible." is not going to be of much use in convincing a court as to the strength of an arguement.

I would suggest you contact a criminalist lab and investigate the matter.

-Cliff
 
I can't imagine an 11 year old having the strength to do such a thing. Not to mention the fact that the pain would be unbearable. I doubt that most adult men could even do that.
 
What is the exact location of this wound? If it were right in the center of the chest, I would think it would be hitting a pretty solid chunk of bone. At least a few ribs if off to the side. What sort of damage did the blade get from hitting bone, if it did? Was the blade vertical or horizontal?

It seems like chest muscles would have a bit of work to do if it was a suicide. Did they get cut, and if so was there tearing of the muscle in addition to the cut?

Can't the coroner answer this for you? Not trying to be snooty, just wondering.
 
Courtesy of the late James Mattis I have a link to a scandinavian study that might have some relevance:
http://diss.kib.ki.se/1997/91-628-2556-9/

PS. This link is just to the abstract. You could probably order the full report, but it might require translation into English. You could also do a library search for studies that reference this study.
 
A prosecutor asking random members of the public for advice regarding a serious case on an anonymous forum?

A prosecutor who can't spell coroner, separate or threatening?

There's something wrong here. I would advise extreme caution in your dealings with this poster.

maximus otter
 
maximus otter said:
A prosecutor asking random members of the public for advice regarding a serious case on an anonymous forum?

A prosecutor who can't spell coroner, separate or threatening?

There's something wrong here. I would advise extreme caution in your dealings with this poster.

maximus otter
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He must not be a very competent prosecutor if he has to rely on a bunch of internet knife guys to prove his case. There are far better ways to search for the truth.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
From a legal perspective however "A bunch of guys on the internet said it isn't possible." is not going to be of much use in convincing a court as to the strength of an arguement.
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No kidding. Try reading some other threads on this website and see how respectable we look. :) I wouldn't trust us either.
 
K.V. Collucci said:
He must not be a very competent prosecutor if he has to rely on a bunch of internet knife guys to prove his case. There are far better ways to search for the truth.
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It does sound fishy. I looked to see if someone by that name was actually a prosecutor in Ohio before I bothered to respond. Hey, maybe its a dinky town with limited staff?

We have wasted far more time on lesser stuff here, so I figured what the heck.
 
maximus otter said:
A prosecutor asking random members of the public for advice regarding a serious case on an anonymous forum?

A prosecutor who can't spell coroner, separate or threatening?

There's something wrong here. I would advise extreme caution in your dealings with this poster.

maximus otter
Click to expand...


For what it's worth, there is a Russell Leffler who is listed as prosecuting attorney for the county of Huron, in Ohio.
 
C'mon Russ, if you want expert opinions why don't you contact the cast of CSI. They're probably hard to reach but they have all those hi-tech analytical tools and whatnot.
 
He also cross-posted in the hand-grippers thread in Gadget & Gear.

This seems pretty odd. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that someone who works in a prosecutor's office might think it a good idea to post that question here, but sincere as the question might be there doesn't seem much point in us trying to help answer the question. We know about knives but this is beyond the area of our expertise.
 
maximus otter said:
A prosecutor asking random members of the public for advice regarding a serious case on an anonymous forum?

A prosecutor who can't spell coroner, separate or threatening?

There's something wrong here. I would advise extreme caution in your dealings with this poster.
Click to expand...
I think our 'prosecutor' has committed credibility suicide.
 
Maybe he can't type. Maybe he can't spell. Not a crime. Lots of people can't. My father is a chemical engineer. His IQ is on the genius level, but he can't spell for spit.

And it's not like he's coming to us to prepare a case. I'm sure he knows that "A bunch of internet personalities said so" isn't a good case, but I'm sure he also knows that a bunch of knowledgeable knife people's opinions are worth soliciting because A. it will take him about thirty seconds to ask, so why not? and B. It might point him in the direction of something more useful, such as the Scandinavian study previously referred to.

I don't understand why he can't ask a perfectly reasonable question. BF members answer plenty of retarded questions from retarded people without questioning their credentials. Why are you all running searches for this guy's license?
 
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