Protecting Stitching without a Welt.

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Almightyox

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Jul 29, 2014
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I am designing a sheath for a rather small Kiridashi that I bought from Darrin Sanders. I am curious if there is an effective way to protect the stitches of a sheath without the use of a welt?

The knife is very pointy and RAZOR sharp, and I am afraid if I don't use some sort of protection it will slice easily through stitching, no matter how well I hide it, but it is also too thin for me to put a welt in my sheath without shaving it down.

If nothing else is possible, how can I shave down a welt without a skiver?
 
What weight is the thinnest leather you have on hand?

And no, I'd never suggest not using a welt in a sheath, especially with a very sharp blade, the welt becomes vital in that situation
 
I have some fairly light leather scraps i got from an auction. I am not all that sure what weight it is but it's about half as thick as my 8-9 ounce veggie tanned (if I understand the system that would make it 4-5 ounce?) The catch is that is has one side already finished. I wasn't sure if it would dye properly, that is why I am apprehensive to use it. Could I sand down the finished side, and wedge it between two of my pieces of veggie tanned?
 
Yes, for proper glue adhesion you want to rough up the leather a bit anyhow. Also, the finished edge part can be either sanded or cut away as you make your welt. 4-5 ounce is about as thin as I'd go for a welt.

One little thing to think about with a knife that is particularly thin and sharp is to make that welt a little wider than you normally would, this gives a little more space between your blade and the stitching. In other words an added layer of protection. Add at least 1/8" to the width of your welt and you'll notice a big difference in its strength.
 
I bet the knife you are talking about will make a pretty good skiver. There are special built skiving knives that are made along the same lines only with more of a handle.
 
Or you can sand it thinner if you have a sander, or by hand.

The way I was taught to taper a welt is to leave the leather at least 75% as wide as the spine of the knife. Not sure how well that translates to a dashi given the different geometry, but it's worked well for me.

If I know I'll have good wet forming ability, sometimes I'll build in a bit of space between where the edge will be and where the welt will be. I always make the welt so that the tip touches the welt though.
 
You could also line the sheath and put a small magnet between the face and liner on one side and it should hold that little blade in there pretty well. IIRC it weighs less than an ounce. The little magnets they use for magnetic money clips work great.
 
Thanks a lot for all the advice guys. I ended up making a very rudimentary pocket slip for this knife. I will definitely make a better sheath for it when I refine my skills a little bit. I mucked up my welt placement with my contact cement and now i am not sure I have enough room on one side to even stitch it...

Which brings me to my next question. Is it possible for a pocket slip to stay together being held by only contact cement? I don't really wanna scrap this little slip but I am afraid if I try to punch stitch holes they will stray from vertical and ruin my whole setup. I know a stitchless slip is not ideal, but will it hold up to light use for at least a short period of time?
 
There's no way I would tell you it's safe. CC is strong stuff, but the quality of leather, surface prep, and how you applied the cement are all critical.

I say bin it and start over. I had two custom knives sitting on my dresser for a month before I made sheaths for them. I know it sucks to wait, but an unexpected perforation sucks more.
 
The extreme sharpness of the knife combined with the lack of stitching AND in you pocket. That just sounds alarming to me.
 
Time to cut your losses. Scrap the project and start over before the losses include a trip to the emergency room.

Start over with a paper pattern where you can make adjustments and get everything worked out before you even start to cut leather. The welt is a very important part of the whole scheme and not a place skimp on quality.

Just contact cement and no stitching is, as Dwayne inferred, a recipe for disaster.

One other truism "If you start with crap, it will most likely still be crap when you finish"

Good Luck

Paul
 
Never fear fellow sheath makers! With a little fine-tuning and a whole lot of precision I was able to put a single stitch all the way around and strengthen up my sheath considerably. I wrapped one of my needles in a thick layer of duct tape to get it to chuck into my drillpress and it worked really well to keep my stitche holes very straight. You are all very right. Even considering putting something of questionable integrity into my pocket is foolish. I will start a new thread and post pictures soon, I just wanna say thanks for all the help and for not entertaining the silly idea of a stitchless pocket slip.
 
Great to hear bud. Good solution for the press. Might not be a long term solution, but sounds like it worked well when you needed it.

Btw, not sure if this applies to you, but when using a needle it helps to shorten it as short as possible to avoid wander. A piece of wood under the leather is immensely helpful as well. Mine has a cut out for pouch sheaths so that the belt loop can fit in the cut out and leave the welt area flat. Had a heck of a time before I came and asked what everyone else did. Simple but critical for my setup.

I actually have some slip sheaths without welts, but they are there to protect my custom wood carving knives from getting dinged. Totally different app, but there are cases where a welt isn't 100% necessary, just not many. Others likely differ, but I can roll with that.

Looking forward to those pics. ;)
 
I have seen weltless sheaths but those were all for folders where the blade is not exposed. My press wandered a bit but i put on an old glave and braced the needle with my finger. Seemed to work very well. I might shorten the needle up a bit to see if that helps. I would like to epoxy a needle into a dowel like previously suggested. I am just afraid my hole won't be entirely straight and it will wander very badly. I will post my photos when I get home from work :)
 
Well it can, and it does. I was just wondering if there was a way to make a sheath without a welt and still not compromise stitching.
 
Find the center of your dowel and drill a very small hole?

I wonder if they make a pin vise that will chuck in your press. If they do, that would be the easiest way, short of buying a bench top press.

I'm gonna think on this.
 
There's a way but in the end it's a bit more work, I made the sheaths in this thread without a welt, short answer is wet forming around the knife while the blade is raised up off the back of the sheath, so in essence the side of the formed leather doesn't protect the thread directly, the edge is now higher due the forming.

See this thread here

the sheaths in that thread were made for folks that I 'promised' them as I don't usually take on fixed blade sheaths...
G2
 
Thanks Gary. I'm at work but I'll check out your thread as soon as I get home. Strig my press has a little wobble as is to i'm afraid the wobble will screw up any hole i try to put into a small dowel. I need to get into my press and figure out how to tighten up its wobble.
 
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