Protection knife against wild animals.

killgar said:
So, what if a person finds themselves under a bear and they have a fixed-blade on their hip? Would you suggest that they NOT use it?


Of course, I certainly agree that if a person enters bear country, and they only carry a knife as their sole means of defending themselves against bears, then yes, I would question their basic intelligence, and perhaps their sanity.
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I think the second part of your post is exactly what his meaning was. :)
 
stabman said:
I think the second part of your post is exactly what his meaning was. :)
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That's the internet for ya. Sometimes it might take a few posts, or pages, for people to realize that they actually agree.:)
 
killgar said:
So, what if a person finds themselves under a bear and they have a fixed-blade on their hip? Would you suggest that they NOT use it?

I wouldn't wager much on a persons ability to successfully fend-off or kill a bear with a knife, but I think it's better than nothing. And clearly there are some who have successfully done it.

If a person travels in bear or mountain lion territory, and if they don't consider the possibility of being attacked and PLAN their equipment appropriately, I wouldn't call them "insane", but I would call them foolish. Just as I would call it foolish to assume that carrying a gun, or bear-spray, or noise-makers, will keep them safe. Adding a knife to ones options isn't what I would call "insane", I'd call it prudent. Seeing as how a fixed-blade is such a valuable thing to have in the wilderness, I don't think that it's "insane" to view such an item as a last-ditch means of defense against wildlife.

Of course, I certainly agree that if a person enters bear country, and they only carry a knife as their sole means of defending themselves against bears, then yes, I would question their basic intelligence, and perhaps their sanity.
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Yes - I suggest you not use it and sometimes doing nothing IS better. With the exception of Grizzlies & Polar Bears, bears are not predatory towards humans. When they attack, it is not for food. It is because they feel threatened in some way. Again with the exception of Grizzlies and Polar bears, the best bet in that case is to play dead. Yep, you'll get hurt. But the bear will eventually realize that it is no longer threatened by you and leave. Pull out that knife and slash at a full grown bear and it will more likely than not be the last thing you ever do unless you are exceptionally lucky. The odds are better, and professionals train you to play dead. There is a reason for that.

That post where the OP mentions stabbing the bear in the head. Geez. That would be like stabbing a rock. :stupid:
 
For the trail I am going to have to agree even though this is not what you asked but reality is reality for trails and camping carry some good bear spray, its lighter and more effective up close and personal. However if you must go the knife route something that will penetrate deep is what you need, not a SOG field pup or seal pup elite. A inch blade is not going to cut it against an attacking bear you want something along the lines of a Becker BK9, Esee Junglas, 18" HI Khukuri,or some other 7 plus inch blade. Bears have fur muscle and fat that you have to get through to get to the vitals and the reason I discourage this route for defense against bears is the weight of these knives. If you are not used to carrying a large knife then you will most likely leave it home, in camp or in the car and it won't be available when and if you needed it. Get some bear spray and a ruger sp101 in .357 and you should be good to go.
 
SaintlyBrees said:
Yes - I suggest you not use it and sometimes doing nothing IS better. With the exception of Grizzlies & Polar Bears, bears are not predatory towards humans. When they attack, it is not for food. It is because they feel threatened in some way. Again with the exception of Grizzlies and Polar bears, the best bet in that case is to play dead. Yep, you'll get hurt. But the bear will eventually realize that it is no longer threatened by you and leave. Pull out that knife and slash at a full grown bear and it will more likely than not be the last thing you ever do unless you are exceptionally lucky. The odds are better, and professionals train you to play dead. There is a reason for that.

That post where the OP mentions stabbing the bear in the head. Geez. That would be like stabbing a rock. :stupid:
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No, because rocks don't usually try and kill you. Playing dead is the best bet considering g that stabbing a bear would likely pissed it off and prove you are definitely a threat.
 
dkb45 said:
Playing dead is the best bet
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NO.

Black Bear Attacks

Almost all recorded black bear attacks in the wild have resulted from the human surprising the bear.


If a black bear approaches you:




•do not play dead. Playing dead may work well when dealing with female grizzly bears with cubs, but is not effective and should never be used with black bears;



• speak in a loud voice so that the bear recognizes you as a human; Do not play dead, as your survival may depend on fighting back.



• back slowly away, and do not turn your back. Keep the bear in sight without making direct eye contact;



• when you are alone, raise your arms over your head and slowly wave them to appear larger and more intimidating;



• stay together if you are part of a group. Do not spread out;



• throw rocks or sticks at the animal;



• do not climb a tree, as all but the heaviest black bears can easily climb almost any tree. The climbing action may also make the bear think that you are another bear;



• seek shelter in any nearby camp or vehicle; and



• stand your ground if the bear charges you. Almost all charges are bluffs, and the animal will usually veer off before it reaches you. Bluff charges are quite common if you get too close to a female with cubs


Remember: a bear standing on its hind legs is not a sign of aggression. Bears simply stand to see and smell better. It is usually a sign that the animal has not yet identified you.


Black Bear Attacks - Fight Back



If the bear makes physical contact with you, fight back aggressively. Use whatever object is available to hit the animal on the nose or in the eyes. Do not play dead, as your survival may depend on fighting back.

From here:

http://www.blackbearkingdom.net/black-bear-attacks.html
 
stabman said:
http://www.bearsmart.com/resources/north-american-bears/dispelling-myths

Check out myth 15.

Don't play dead...bears eat dead things too.
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The key comment from that myth is this: "But it is the wrong thing to do if you're being attacked by a predatory bear."

Few bears are predatory towards humans. Grizzlies and Polar bears are. Brown and black bears are not. There are exceptions, but again - the odds are in your favor if the bear is not a Grizzly or a Polar.

I'm not getting this stuff off of the internet. Again, I live in bear country and often interface with bears, guides and Wildlife and Fisheries. I see bears at least once a week. No Grizzlies or Polars, but tons of black bears here. ;)
 
Woods Walker said:
Occasionally black bears will eat live things as in eaten alive. The last black bear I saw was running the other way fast. I never knew that people actually believed playing dead with a black bear was effective.
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It is what they teach you. When we first moved up here 13 years ago, we saw fit to take some wilderness classes as the wilderness here is quite different from S. La where we are originally from. The classes, the handouts, the discussions by people who live with this possibility is indeed to play dead. The very vast majority of attacks come from bears who feel threatened for whatever reason. It is almost never because they want to eat you (again, grizzlies and polars are different). Playing dead removes the threat and the bear leaves. That is the concept involved here.

And with that, I'll leave folks to fight off bears with their knives. :)
 
SaintlyBrees said:
It is what they teach you.
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But the experts are rethinking what they have taught:

The Claim: If Attacked by a Bear, Play Dead


By ANAHAD O'CONNOR

Published: October 4, 2005


THE FACTS As bear populations from New Jersey to Yellowstone rebound, so do reports of tense human encounters with them.

Common wisdom holds that the way to react, when all else fails, is simple: curl up in a ball and play dead.


But that is not always the best idea. Attacks can generally be divided into two groups: predatory and defensive. Each calls for a different strategy.

Black and grizzly bears are capable of both types of attack. Those involving grizzlies tend to be defensive, when the animal feels threatened, according to Stephen Herrero, a bear expert at the University of Calgary and the author of "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance." Playing dead then lets the bear know you're not a threat and can cause it to back off.

Black bears usually flee from humans, but when they do attack the motive tends to be predatory, and playing dead doesn't work. Neither does running away, since bears are much faster than humans.

If the bear is after food, it is best to drop it and back away, Mr. Herrero says. If the animal presses, he adds, be aggressive: shout, bang on objects or use pepper spray to scare it off. The National Parks Service and the National Wildlife Federation recommend similar measures.

THE BOTTOM LINE Experts do not recommend playing dead if a bear attack appears to be predatory.
 
Probably something in the 44 caliber range and above.

If you wanna start gettin into some utility hiking/campig fixed blades, request a KA-BAR catalog..

Or just pick up a Mora, I carry a 511 at about $8 and be done with it, but we know you never will ;) not as long as you spend time on bladeforums, soon you'll have a collection of fixed blades.
 
Black Bears, often young males, are reported to be the most common black bear to attack humans. When Black Bears attack, typically it is for dinner. Definitely fight back if attacked, but hopefully it will never get to that point.

Knives.... lots of choices. I have a SOG Seal Pup Elite and I consider it a pretty fair knife overall for the money. I have been lusting over a Kabar Becker BK-7 and it's a bit larger than the Seal Pup Elite. I will eventually buy one. Might be one that is pretty cost effective to consider.

You are better off with bear spray overall. I don't want to fight even a 100 lb black bear... 100 lbs of claws and resolve. I'd probably loose. Bump that to 200 or 300 lbs and well.... bear spray or perhaps a handgun that you might enjoy toting in the woods. My personal choice is a 4" double action revolver such as the S&W M57 or 657 (41 mag), but a 44 will do just fine. My basic recommendation for guns to defend against black bears is 357 mag or larger/more powerful.

I doubt you would ever need a gun in SW Virginia for bears. Black Bears are becoming a problem in SE KY these days. There have been reports of mountain lions in Eastern KY/Southwest VA along with the Smoky Mt/Blue Ridge area in general. Fish and Game are pretty much keeping their mouths shut and will tell you that no mountain lions exist except for a capative animal that has escaped or released.
 
SaintlyBrees said:
The key comment from that myth is this: "But it is the wrong thing to do if you're being attacked by a predatory bear."

Few bears are predatory towards humans. Grizzlies and Polar bears are. Brown and black bears are not. There are exceptions, but again - the odds are in your favor if the bear is not a Grizzly or a Polar.

I'm not getting this stuff off of the internet. Again, I live in bear country and often interface with bears, guides and Wildlife and Fisheries. I see bears at least once a week. No Grizzlies or Polars, but tons of black bears here. ;)
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Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries warns against Playing dead in big bold print on their weblage about black bears, just saying.
 
SaintlyBrees said:
Yes - I suggest you not use it and sometimes doing nothing IS better. With the exception of Grizzlies & Polar Bears, bears are not predatory towards humans. When they attack, it is not for food. It is because they feel threatened in some way. :
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You need to do a little research, predatory attacks by black bears is well documented
These predatory attacks are usually committed by large male black bears
I don't know what professionals taught you to play dead, that is certainly not what they teach up here
The old myth that bears really don't want to hurt you and you just need to play dead went out years ago.

The type of attack dictates the appropriate response
Taken from a link I posted earlier
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/explore/misc/bears/bearsaf.html

What to do if a Bear Attacks

Your response depends on the species and whether the bear is being defensive or offensive. Bears sometimes bluff their way out of a confrontation by charging then turning away at the last moment. Generally, the response is to do nothing to threaten or further arouse the bear. While fighting back usually increases the intensity of an attack, it may cause the bear to leave.

Every encounter is unique and the following are offered as guidelines only to deal with an unpredictable animal and potentially complex situations.
Grizzly Attacks From Surprise (defensive)

Do nothing to threaten or further arouse the bear.
Play dead. Assume the 'cannonball position' with hands clasped behind neck and face buried in knees.
Do not move until the bear leaves the area. Such attacks seldom last beyond a few minutes.

Black Bear Attacks From Surprise (defensive)

Playing dead is not appropriate. Try to retreat from the attack.

Grizzly or Black Bear Attacks Offensively (including stalking you or when you are sleeping)

Do not play dead. Try to escape to a secure place (car or building) or climb a tree unless it is a black bear. If you have no other option, try to intimidate the bear with deterrents or weapons such as tree branches or rocks.

Grizzly or Black Bear Attacking For Your Food

Abandon the food. Leave the area.
Do not deal with a problem bear unless it is an emergency.
 
For the trail I am going to have to agree even though this is not what you asked but reality is reality for trails and camping carry some good bear spray, its lighter and more effective up close and personal. However if you must go the knife route something that will penetrate deep is what you need, not a SOG field pup or seal pup elite. A inch blade is not going to cut it against an attacking bear you want something along the lines of a Becker BK9, Esee Junglas, 18" HI Khukuri,or some other 7 plus inch blade. Bears have fur muscle and fat that you have to get through to get to the vitals and the reason I discourage this route for defense against bears is the weight of these knives. If you are not used to carrying a large knife then you will most likely leave it home, in camp or in the car and it won't be available when and if you needed it. Get some bear spray and a ruger sp101 in .357 and you should be good to go.
 
SaintlyBrees said:
=With the exception of Grizzlies & Polar Bears, bears are not predatory towards humans. When they attack, it is not for food. It is because they feel threatened in some way.
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There are reports of predatory male black bears hunting humans.

Interesting that Grizz and Polar bears share some psychology. I read a case of a cross between the two, and the analysis mentioned that Polar bears split off from the Grizzlies relatively recently.
 
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