-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Punch Blades: Cattle Knives and Harness Jacks
- Thread starter black mamba
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 2,701
Cool thread! Always enjoyable when I can learn and get to see such neat examples of the cutlers art!
Charlie,
Thanks again for taking the time to share your knowledge, expertise and of course the cool scans!
Charlie,
Thanks again for taking the time to share your knowledge, expertise and of course the cool scans!
lambertiana
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2000
- Messages
- 9,669
Charlie - That harness jack is an Ulster
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2005
- Messages
- 5,533
Charlie,
Question answered.....319s both Camillus. But, let me give everyone a leg up on this. Here is quick ID course, it will work on 301,303,309,305 and 319s. These methods mainly for the big picture, some models will have a couple of slight changes that make them "versions". Schrade only made 301s and 303s. Schrade 1967 - 1972, Camillus 1972 - 1986, Buck - 1986 to now.
LEFT to RIGHT: First model Schrade made ( The grooved bolster, only one that way).
Second model Schrade made (BIG rivet, generally shallower long nail nic. has a serpintine shape side view),
Third model CAMILLUS made (SMALL rivet, deep nail nic, straight shape),
Fourth model Camillus made (small rivet, but still Made In U.S.A.but with model # stamped on reverse tang),
Fifth model Camillus made (NO rivet,Tang stamped - BUCK, model #, U.S.A.,
Sixth model BUCK made (Buck took over with 1986 model, Tang will be stamped with year code after model number. Note BUCK escutcheon and shape change, small nail nic. < means 1986)
Seventh model Buck made (Round ended escutcheon, old stamping back, small nail nic, Tang stamped - BUCK, Model #, U.S.A. with year code. This continued with some blade grind changes to this day, v means 1989, there is a chart with symbols on Buck BF site and Buck Knives website).
Buck School over Craig/300Bucks
Question answered.....319s both Camillus. But, let me give everyone a leg up on this. Here is quick ID course, it will work on 301,303,309,305 and 319s. These methods mainly for the big picture, some models will have a couple of slight changes that make them "versions". Schrade only made 301s and 303s. Schrade 1967 - 1972, Camillus 1972 - 1986, Buck - 1986 to now.
LEFT to RIGHT: First model Schrade made ( The grooved bolster, only one that way).
Second model Schrade made (BIG rivet, generally shallower long nail nic. has a serpintine shape side view),
Third model CAMILLUS made (SMALL rivet, deep nail nic, straight shape),
Fourth model Camillus made (small rivet, but still Made In U.S.A.but with model # stamped on reverse tang),
Fifth model Camillus made (NO rivet,Tang stamped - BUCK, model #, U.S.A.,
Sixth model BUCK made (Buck took over with 1986 model, Tang will be stamped with year code after model number. Note BUCK escutcheon and shape change, small nail nic. < means 1986)
Seventh model Buck made (Round ended escutcheon, old stamping back, small nail nic, Tang stamped - BUCK, Model #, U.S.A. with year code. This continued with some blade grind changes to this day, v means 1989, there is a chart with symbols on Buck BF site and Buck Knives website).
Buck School over Craig/300Bucks
Last edited:
waynorth
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2005
- Messages
- 33,200
I should have known by that punch. It was shared with Schrade for a while.
I was asleep at the switch
!300Bucks, thanks for the lesson!
waynorth
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2005
- Messages
- 33,200
Several years ago, one of the good folks here sent me a copy of this page from a 1911 Schatt & Morgan catalog.
Beautiful knives, and interesting punches. For years, I didn't know what to make of the punches, except that I'd never seen one around in all my searching for Harness Jacks and other punch knives.
Then somebody dropped this knife in the mail to me.
Bingo! This lovely relic showed me the Schatt punch of the day, and some interesting bone jigging to boot. Too bad about the blade of course. Pattern #2199 .
The tang on the punch is laminated of two pieces of steel. One is just the shape of the tang, stamped/identified as you see it. The other piece makes up the punch and is full length. It is conical (about 1/4 of a cone, if you can picture it), and these pics may help you understand it.
The patent was assigned to Mr. Schatt I believe, and does contain some of the design principles of the laminated-tang New York Knife patented punch. There is enough of a "lip" on the punch to lift it up and open it with your thumb, just like any folding blade.
Beautiful knives, and interesting punches. For years, I didn't know what to make of the punches, except that I'd never seen one around in all my searching for Harness Jacks and other punch knives.
Then somebody dropped this knife in the mail to me.
Bingo! This lovely relic showed me the Schatt punch of the day, and some interesting bone jigging to boot. Too bad about the blade of course. Pattern #2199 .
The tang on the punch is laminated of two pieces of steel. One is just the shape of the tang, stamped/identified as you see it. The other piece makes up the punch and is full length. It is conical (about 1/4 of a cone, if you can picture it), and these pics may help you understand it.
The patent was assigned to Mr. Schatt I believe, and does contain some of the design principles of the laminated-tang New York Knife patented punch. There is enough of a "lip" on the punch to lift it up and open it with your thumb, just like any folding blade.
silenthunterstudios
Slipjoint Addict
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2005
- Messages
- 20,039
Edited so as not to s*** on this thread. Nice blades.:thumbup:
Last edited:
Will Power
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2007
- Messages
- 33,472
Thanks for showing that 1911 catalogue, all extremely beautiful knives there.
Rich worn caramel bone on that walking and talking wounded!
Rich worn caramel bone on that walking and talking wounded!
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2004
- Messages
- 6,425
Frankly, I don't know how you and the other fellows in here can get along without them. I consistently use my various punch blades week in and out on something or another.. Perhaps its my lifestyle that requires such a unique tool/blade at the ready. I'm not quite sure?.
.. I need them around and thats a pure ole-dee fact. 
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2006
- Messages
- 1,086
Love this thread, as the Harness Jack is one of my most preferred items of pocketry.
I have a really nice D2 & ramshorn stockman with an awl form Ontario/RAT - I don't know if it is still available - my guess is that it was made by Queen - never sure about these things, but it has a lot of family resemblance. No pictures with me at the moment. I have bought and shifted a few looking for the right one, and I am annoyed to have missed the Schatt and Morgan teardrop that was available a few years back.
Anyway, I thought that you might like to see this - it is from the Klass factory in Germany and made in the 1950s as a strictly utilitarian piece; made and sold for pfennigs. The blade is some kind carbon steel and the awl looks for all the world the blade from a pair of scissors. In fact, I am certain of that. The piece is really redolent of a particular period in post war German industrial history - rather different from the high tech engineered slickness we are more familiar with
A friend discovered a few boxes of these, still in their original wrappings at the back of an old shop that was closing down
Here are some pics, and a link to thread they come from - pics aren't mine. I am rubbish with a camera
Here's Yellowhammer's original thread
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?48196-Klaas-Harness-Jack&highlight=harness+jack
I have a really nice D2 & ramshorn stockman with an awl form Ontario/RAT - I don't know if it is still available - my guess is that it was made by Queen - never sure about these things, but it has a lot of family resemblance. No pictures with me at the moment. I have bought and shifted a few looking for the right one, and I am annoyed to have missed the Schatt and Morgan teardrop that was available a few years back.
Anyway, I thought that you might like to see this - it is from the Klass factory in Germany and made in the 1950s as a strictly utilitarian piece; made and sold for pfennigs. The blade is some kind carbon steel and the awl looks for all the world the blade from a pair of scissors. In fact, I am certain of that. The piece is really redolent of a particular period in post war German industrial history - rather different from the high tech engineered slickness we are more familiar with
A friend discovered a few boxes of these, still in their original wrappings at the back of an old shop that was closing down
Here are some pics, and a link to thread they come from - pics aren't mine. I am rubbish with a camera
Here's Yellowhammer's original thread
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?48196-Klaas-Harness-Jack&highlight=harness+jack
Last edited:
silenthunterstudios
Slipjoint Addict
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2005
- Messages
- 20,039
I just want to add, there are some beautiful knives in here!
black mamba
Gold Member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2009
- Messages
- 23,468
Well, I finally received my Northfield UN-X-LD harness jack. Buying this knife was what got me to start this thread.
Thanks for all the great input about punches. Of course, I have used the punch on my old (about 50 years old!) scout knife many times,
but never really thought about needing one "out and about" so never carried it much.
This one might get carried though, still undecided.
Northfield UN-X-LD #542208P in amber jigged bone
You'll notice that, unlike Greg's stag model with clip main shown earlier in this thread, mine has the nicely swedged spear blade main with long pull.
Not sure which I like better-- both are great.
Thanks for all the great input about punches. Of course, I have used the punch on my old (about 50 years old!) scout knife many times,
but never really thought about needing one "out and about" so never carried it much.
This one might get carried though, still undecided.
Northfield UN-X-LD #542208P in amber jigged bone
You'll notice that, unlike Greg's stag model with clip main shown earlier in this thread, mine has the nicely swedged spear blade main with long pull.
Not sure which I like better-- both are great.
Last edited: