Pup vs LMF

Joined
Dec 14, 2007
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I posted the following thread on the general knife board and it was suggested I post it here for better results...

I am torn between two knifes and as usual request owners opinions & suggestions. "War stories" (what you did with your knife) always appreciated.

- SOG SEAL Pup Elite Knife, Straight Edge, Kydex Sheath
- Gerber Military Tactical LMF II – A.S.E.K. MOLLE Sheath

For me the knife is just for general fun in the woods/survival. One (or both) will be affixed to backpacks will all my survival gear, which I take on all trips.

Thanks in advance for the comments...

Max
 
Thats a very interesting contrast of possibilities you've offered to choose from. The Seal Pup Elite is a relatively base fixed blade, very tame. The Gerber, a big thick powerhouse style knife complete with useless window smasher butt and looks like you just parachuted into war or a rescue mission. What lead you to narrow it down to these two knives? What do you like about each of them? Honestly I'd go with the Seal Pup Elite. You won't need any more than that. It's a good knife.
 
Hi Max,

Welcome to Blade Forums and Wilderness & Survival Skills.

I do not have either knife, but I looked at each one to carry with me on my day hikes attached to my pack.

Out of the two, I decided the SOG Seal Pup was the better knife. The ASEK stands for Aviation Survival Escape Knife (or something like that). It was specifically designed for aircrews to get out of aircraft in emergencies. It is supposed to be able to cut through the skin of an aircraft and the butt is designed to help get through plexiglass. I felt that those attributes were not what I really needed for a hiking/survival knife.

The SOG Seal Pup seems to be a great tough knife. I did not buy it either, but I think it would be a fine knife for survival. I read a lot of comments on it from owners and they consistently said that the Kydex sheath scratched the finish on the blade.

What did I get recently? A Buck Diamondback from Cabela's for under $10.00 on sale. Actually, I got two Diamondbacks (and they were actually "free" since I used my Cabela's Club member points to get them). One is the 4.5 inch model and the other is the 3.25 inch. I have not been able to try them out yet, but I like the size and feel of them.

Get whatever knife you like. Everyone has his/her own opinion on what is the ultimate knife. I decided that both the Gerber LMF ASEK and the SOG Seal Pup were too expensive and heavy for my needs. I usually just do day hikes and some hunting.

Good luck on your knife selection and, again, welcome to Blade Forums.
:thumbup:
 
I will make it even tougher for you. I have both of these knives and either one would do a great job. I would say the Gerber is a bit heavier and may possess a little more chopping power although I wouldn't consider either a real chopper. I don't chop with knives so this is of no concern to me. The Pup is a little lighter to carry and would sure handle the cutting jobs required of a knife in that size range. You can't loose here.
 
Thanks for all the input. I must admit I am a knife novice. Prior to joining any forums I read a lot of good things about both the Pup and LMF; granted the Pup was more 'survival', whereas the LMF was all hard core, but both appealed to me. I also like the BK7, but it is a little big.

I am going through a phase of survival planning and am in the process of gathering my designated pack with all my gear. I will probably start a thread about a little later (after I read more on this forum, as I am new) posting what I think I need in it, and soliciting guidance.

Any recommendations on a different knife?

Thanks,
Max
(Could someone spell out some of the common acronyms used here, i.e. NWA)
 
am going through a phase of survival planning and am in the process of gathering my designated pack with all my gear. I will probably start a thread about a little later (after I read more on this forum, as I am new) posting what I think I need in it, and soliciting guidance.

Any recommendations on a different knife?

Firstly, well done on having the guts to ask for advice, because a lot of people don't and they end up wasting money on the wrong stuff.

My honest opinion is that neither the LMF nor the Sog are particularly good choices for a wilderness survival knife.

The major problem with the LMF is that the blade has serrations for almost half its length, and (believe it or not) serrations actually reduce the functionality of the knife in the wilderness. Serrations are really only useful for cutting tough synthetic materials like nylon spectra or hard plastics, where they out-perform a plain edge perhaps two or three times to one. Nevertheless, both of these materials are also easily cut with a plain blade so long as it is sharp. If you were cutting these materials hundreds of times a day, then certainly a serrated edge would be optimal, but if not then serrations are best avoided. The serrations on the LMF would be a significant hinderance in performing all the critical wilderness tasks (such as notching for traps, creating feathersticks, shaving tinder, skinning, chopping wood). Unfortunately I found all this out the hard way, as my first "good" knife had serrations along half of the blade and proved utterly useless out in the bush.

The Sog seal pup, whilst a better choice than the LMF, is also not a great choice for a wilderness knife. One problem is that the blade steel is AUS 8, which is not terrible but is not particularly good either. It is generally regarded as significantly inferior to other steels available. A second problem with the Sog is that the blade is (I believe, not 100% certain) hollow ground, or it may be a partial flat grind. Either way, neither of these grinds is optimal for a wilderness knife. The best grinds on a wilderness knife are a convex grind or a full flat grind.

So if not the LMF or Sog, what type of knife should you be looking at? My first suggestion is Fallkniven knives, either the F1 or the S1. Both of these knives are made from laminated steel, using a combination of the premium Japanese stainless VG10 and a softer 420 stainless. The result is that these knives have exceptional edge holding whilst being extremely strong. The F1 has a blade about 4 inches long and approx. 4mm thick, with a full flat grind. The S1 (which I carry and prefer to the F1) has a slightly longer blade at about 5 inches, and is slightly thicker at about 5mm. The S1 is convex ground. There is also a larger model called the A1, which is similar to the S1 but about 6 inches long and 6mm thick. My personal feeling is that this is a little too thick for a wilderness knife, but it might be a good choice if you wanted to do a lot of batoning.

My second suggestion is the Bark River knives, which I haven't personally used but are very highly regarded. The models in A2 carbon steel seem particularly popular, although I have read reports of fairly serious rust problems from some A2 users. Obviously, any carbon steel requires significantly more care than stainless steels.

My third suggestion are the traditional scandinavian knives, such as can be found on www.ragweedforge.com. These range from the famous Frosts Mora which sells for about $10 through more expensive models with thicker/stronger blades and more exotic handle materials. Almost all of them make fantastic wilderness knives.

Best of luck with your choice.

-jh205
 
I have the LMF, it is a tough, bullet proof combat blade built for warriors. It is a great knife for that, as for an outdoor knife, well, I have others that are better. If you think you need a knife to hang on a combat harness to fight your way out of a war zone, it's the one. But you can get other more suitable knives cheaper. And I would suggest that.
 
I would definitely take a long, hard look at the Bark River range. They offer pretty good value for money IMO.

There are also some good value items from Cold Steel like the Recon Scout that would do very well.

Also spend some time hanging out in the Maker's section. You can find some fantastic custom made knives there for very reasonable prices.
 
I received a Gerber LMF II ASEK for Christmas (closeout priced at LAPoliceGear). It is a very nice knife, not exactly a "survival" as proclaimed here, but more of a heavy duty all-purpose survival - I call it my 'RED DAWN' knife... The sheath is very versatile as well.

I am beginning to see the need for a smaller blade as many have suggested. I am still looking for it; the SAKs are starting to grow on me, as they are mentioned in every thread on this forum…

Max
 
the Fallkniven F1 would be my next knife if i was buying knives now. Never heard any bad reviews on the F1.
 
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