'pure' tactical folder

It is very noteworthy that the last post mentioned the Trident. While I'm not crazy about any MODs, this provides an excellent reference point. Its designer, Chief Watson, did at least three tours in Nam and is a plank owner of one of the teams-he is about as real as it gets, not a wannabe. So what type of knife does he design? a 10" dagger for stabbing the enemy, running their eyeballs through and slicing their torsos to pieces? NO, miraculously, he designs a knife to be used for UTILITY, because he knows better than any armchair forum commando that real professionals use knives for utility.

Further, there is really no such thing as a tactical folder if tactical means to be carried and used with the intention of being in a LE/military/survival situation. Even the very best folder would not be one's first choice, so they are all by definition backups. If it's not fixed, and it's not a Sebenza or Benz-clone, leave it at home!
 
Hello,

Im confused, I always thought the best
" TACTICAL " folder, was a FIXED BLADE!!!

sorry i couldnt resist,,,,,LMAO

Have Fun,

Allen Blade
 
I believe the dictionary definition of "pure tactical folder" is "CQC6".

However, I don't think Rob Simonich's version of the Crawford Carnavour with it's rolling lock, talonite blade, and carbon fiber handle scales can be beat. Definitely a beaute.

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Yeah! Drop the chalupa...
 
Maybe we can discuss this question step by step :

1.under what kind of situation will the
assault team member use a knive ?
(cut the rope, use it as a weapon, etc)
2.what kind of feature could help him doing
his job more efficiently ?
(belly, serrations, etc)
3.what production folder has these features
and performs almost good as a fixed blade ?

if you or your friend is an assault team
member, please tell me what you think.

there is another question:
if the fixed blade is a better choice,
why tactical folders become so popular?


[This message has been edited by agusto5225 (edited 01-12-2000).]
 
“Pure Tactical” would be the REKAT Carnivore or Sifu. Overbuilt in most every way, too much blade, too thick, too heavy, with a lock that has more strength than a human needs. Pure mean, with no redeeming values. Either one would be perfect for you, and they are right in your price range.

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James Segura
San Francisco, CA
 
I have friend who is currently doing assault work in Kosovo. Oh I forgot, Peace Keeping work.
rolleyes.gif
I was asking him about knives and equipment. From his experience to date, knives are primarily utility. He carries a cheap Ka_bar or a CS SRK as his main blade. He has an Emerson CQC-7 (production) as his folder. He likes redundancy in his weapons. Primary is his M-4, Then M-9 (no more personal side arms for his SF unit), Ka-Bar, then folder.

Even his knives don't see a lot of utilty when he is doing door kicking. They bring the tools they need for that. When he is on patrol is when his knives get used the most. He said the CQC-7 is always with him.

I don't know if that qualifies as an endorsement for a knife. It is just what one person in Special Forces uses when he is in harms way.



------------------
If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance,
baffle them with your BS.
 
Augusto,
All of the police and military personell I know personally(mostly customers), own Spyderco's and Benchmades as there folders. What I have heard from them is that Syperco is the best liked of them. The Spyderco Military is in my opinion the best heavy use folder under $200. Add Spyderco's great customer service, and there production size and you have a great military match. A buyer for the US Military once told me that Benchmade was the smallest company he could buy from (for military issue). He said that even they have a hard time with them because there production rate does not allow them to keep up with there orders. If your job is procurring knives for military (which your post suggests), then my recommendation is definitely Spyderco.


Good luck,

------------------
Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

griffithknives.com
GriffithKN@aol.com
Available Knives
 
I forgot to mention MOD's new (? name) Dieter CQC. Built in wire cutter on the handle, plunge lock, stout blade geometry.

Regarding production capability, I would think if the government wants to contract for such equipment, a production company could ramp up production within a reasonable time frame knowing that the money is there.

sing

AKTI #A000356
 
Personally, I think a good tactical knife should be primarily designed for utility and should be very sturdy or overbuilt. Ideally a person should carry two knives, one plain and one serrated but a 3-4" blade that is partially serrated is a decent compromise. A knife should have a decent amount of belly so that it can be more versatile. From my descrription, I think the Spyderco Military is the best knife with the Benchmade 710 Axis Lock a strong second (to me the lock makes it better than the AFCK). Also the guy who said the SAK is the most Tactical knife has a great point. The same would go for a Leatherman.
 
First thing, I'm not ANY sort of military or cop or "team member".

With that caveat out of the way, remember that I do know a thing or two about PD attitudes and I've heard stories about the military.

The last thing any PD Chief wants to read in the paper is that one of his cops ended up KNIFING somebody. Too many connotations of "bloody-mindedness". Street cops therefore have had little or no support for the carry of knives designed first and foremost for fighting. The few that are "into knives" have to pass them off as "tools" and can't carry anything really serious, such as a 9" fixed blade. Most can't get away with a 5" fixed blade...or an open-carry megafolder.

The only "combat inroads" in police knife doctrine is the idea of using a knife to slash the arms/wrists/hands of some jerk trying to wrassle your gun away. And in the pictures I've seen, the knife shown demonstrated in such situations is a 4" range "tactical folder"...because "politically", that's all most cops can get away with.

The military isn't too different. Commanders don't want guys running around on base with big ol' honkin' cutlery. Even in the field, guys with "Rambo knives" often suffer verbal flak or worse.

Their solution in both cases is to pack a folder that can be tucked discreetly away. Which is pretty much the same situation us civilians face, where even if it's legal for us to open-carry big pieces, we'll face police harassment or social problems doing so.

The marketing of so-called "Tactical folders" has let all the above folk pack something that "mentally feels like a fighter". The truth is, Allen Blade is RIGHT when he says a real fighting knife is a fixed blade. Mad Dog says the same thing, so do a lot of others.

Given the choice, I'd pack a big FB. And on weekends I pack The Outsider with a 9" blade. But on weekdays at UC Berkeley, the Sifu can be legally concealed and doesn't cause problems and fits within the law...and it's the best fighting production folder made to date.

Jim
 
I would believe the most common use any given assault team member would have for a knife would be utility. Second would be defense.

A folder with a 4" partially serrated blade would be optimum for utility.
A folder with a 4_1/2-5" blade would be optimum for defense.
Both must be constructed of rugged materials(ss, titanium, ATS34, 154CM, CPM440/420V, g-10, carbon fiber, aluminum) and have a lock with sufficient strength for any job that the knife may be called upon to perform(axis lock, rolling lock, taper lock, frame lock).

An assault team member could use a knife to sever rope, wire/plastic cable, or even perform light prying jobs. I am, however, not qualified to really comment on this and wish someone who is would speak up and tell us EXACTLY what a SEAL/SWAT/Assault team member uses his knife for.

In the <$200 range, customs are pretty much ruled out and we are left to choose from production knives.

The production folders best suited to utilitarian purposes would seem to be the Benchmade 710/s/bt axis lock and the REKAT (Round Eye Knife and Tool) Carnavour.

The production folders best suited to defensive/offensive purposes would seem to be the REKAT Pockit Hobbit, Benchmade 710 axis lock, and the REKAT Sifu.

"If the fixed blade is a better choice, why has the folder become more popular?"

I don't rightly know, but I presume that civilians popularized the folder due to it's convenience and conformacy to laws, then the government realized they weren't just ye ol' Buck 110's anymore so they adopted them into service? Who knows? More comment on this subject would be interesting.



------------------
Yeah! Drop the chalupa...
 
Yes I missed the 200.00 price range question.
Recat is the choice her for the toughest most blood and guts tac folder around. I feel that if you pick up a Spyderco military,bm axis 720, outdoor edge magna, crkt m16 they will all be in the same ball park.

Try the Camillus Bob T. straight knife (new model) for a fixed. Looks like camillus is up and coming in the fixed blade market.

------------------
Web Site At www.infinet.com/~browzer/bldesmth.html
New Web at www.darrelralph.com

 
The Tactical Folder is popular for civilians and others because they are for the most part invisable and legal to carry. If the requirement was for one knife and one only and the choice was fixed or folding, I would not even consider a folder. If your swat and your not worried about gear visable then why a folder? The fixed blade will meet or surpass the folder in any given situation except putting in your pocket. Feedback welcome!
 
Darrel Ralph has just slammed the nail square on the head in his last post.
Any of the knives he mentioned should work and I think the REKAT Carnivour and Benchmade 710 Axis and Spyderco Military should top this short list in that order.

BTW A couple of knives that were not mentioned but should be looked into are the Benchmade Pinnacle and the Spyderco Starmate. Both would work well in these given scenarios.
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If it's stupid but works, then it isn't stupid!

[This message has been edited by misque (edited 01-12-2000).]
 
Thinking more about this, and reading what some other people have said, the new MOD Dieter CQC, or whatever it is, seems to make the most sense. I don't think that the cutter in the butt of it is for wire. I think it is for plastic ties, which I think are becoming more and more common as cuffs (flexicuffs)? It has a reasonable blade length (between 3 and 4 inches), and what appears to be a good lock. What more could a tactical team want, if they truly want a folder.

However, I am thinking that agusto5225 may not be as concerned with the public view as we think. It sounds like he is looking at this question from a perspective outside the US of A, and it's media ... ummm.... problems.

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"Absolute safety is for those who don't have the balls to live in the real world."
 
Ah yes, I did leave the Benchmade Pinnacle out of my list. By mistake. It would fit perfectly into the utility catagory or even the defensive catagory.

The reason I omitted the Spyderco Military, Benchmade AFCK, and even the Emerson Commander is, as Cliff Stamp attested, they are liner lock knives and thus are not entirely strong and stable. The Spydy Military has a rather prominent liner lock release cutout as well.

The Pinnacle, however, slips in because of it's mono/frame lock. It also showcases easy to clean, titanium handles and a grooved aluminum handle spacer.

------------------
Yeah! Drop the chalupa...
 
REKAT Carnivour, or Military would fit the bill. But have you seen R. Daltons new Militia with the 4.5 inch ats 34 steel blade? Its a auto ,of coarse, but sure looks like a pure"tactical" knife to me. Big ,strong, sharp blade. This would be a knife for mean streets.
 
Why isn't anyone putting tool steel blades on their "tactical" folders. If REKAT did this they would be next to ideal. They have blades with decent cutting geometry. The lock has been described as stable and claimed to be able to resist near 1000 in.lbs of torque. The handles also look secure and ergonomic.

-Cliff
 
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