purpose of tanto tip?

Let us please clarify which tanto tip was are talking about. Is the focus of the thread the traditional Japanese tanto tip or the American Bastidised version?
 
Daggers do puncture extremely well. However, they are of little use for slashing. A tanto tip combines thrusting strength with cutting power. Japanese tanto blades do have a curve to the blade as well, giving it somewhat of a belly.
 
RW, I believe we are discussing the Americanized tanto.
 
Sergiusz:

I wouldn't call tantos a fad. They have been around for what, 20 years? That beats the hula hoop by far!

Steve: Yeah, other blades can be ground out thick at the tip. Good point. So, what are the differences between a thickly ground straight angled tip, and a thickly ground curved tip? Scraping tasks would more easily be accomplished with the tanto tip. I found sharpening pencils more easily to do with the tanto tip of the M-16 I had. Cold Steel says that a tanto tip slashes well. Has anyone tested this versus a curved tip?

One difference betweena thickly ground curves tip and a tanto tip is that the curved tip doesn't have the secondary point. The secondary point is a cutting machine.
 
I have a couple of CS tantos around -- one Voyager, one the original brass-hilted fixed blade. The tips are very strong on both. The Voyager is hollow ground to a very thin but straight edge and is one of the sharpest knives in my collection. Works superbly for slicing soft objects like tomatoes, and anything else I would guess. I carry it when jogging. The CS tanto, on the other hand, has a definite curve to the 'straight' or long edge which would make it good for slashing. I have used it for butchering game and it works beautifully. If used to thrust a living target, my guess is that the straight angled tip would shear through tissue very well.
 
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I find the CS Tanto design very attractive, as well as being very strong. Those who work outside on ranches, farms, etc., can attest to the fact that when your machinery breaks down, or something goes wrong, you try to fix it with the tools you have. Sometimes it can be a very long walk back to the machine shed. It helps having a strong tip to do things that would break other knives. That's what I like about the CS Recon Tanto. Purists tend to eschew this point of view, but some of us actually NEED knives that can take abuse.

The Voyagers, like Ed said, are ground very well for sharpening. I was able to amaze some co-workers by placing mine on a ripe grape, edge on the grape and horizontal, then just lifting the handle caused the Voyager to slice well into the grape. Try it. The secondary bevel is perfect for opening letters for your basic office types.

These knives don't have much bellies, but I've never found that a hindrance. Many people love Wharncliffe designs for their lack of belly.

Fad? Not as long as I've had mine. Don't like the design? Don't buy 'em. More for me!
 
Sergiusz,

No one did? Well they should. There is NO reason for the tanto tip.


Steve-O
 
I don't want to pull the focus of the discussion away, but just wanted to emphasize that the chisel points that people have come to associate with 'tanto' in reality did not originate in Japan, and that the only similarly differentiated tips (as in, the tip angles back and is easily distinguished from the rest of the blade) that existed on real tanto were various shinogi zukuri blades, most of which were cut down from full size swords. The shinogi zukuri has quite a few major differences from the modern "geo-tanto" as many have come to call it, and its reason for existing had little to nothing to do with penetration.

Blades in the form of Cold Steel or Emerson geo-tantos and similar knives do not actually carry any Japanese design to them.

Of course most folks knew this, I just felt like reclarifying for the few. Sorry for any disruption!

Robert.
 
A true Tanto is not what is represented by Emerson, CS, etc. The true Japanese tanto was not angular (to put it very simply). The angular "American" tanto is nothing more than a commercial gimmick, because it looks cool, and people fall for the cool factor. Same goes for the one side grind. On a positive note, they are much cheaper to produce...

--dan
 
Also, many Japanese tantos were made from broken swords.
 
A true Tanto is not what is represented by Emerson, CS, etc.
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Well, true, sorta. When we knife folks say tanto, we know that it refers to Japanese styles with the curved tip and all, and the american geo-angle-chisel tip-whatever knife. The name tanto has stuck, so that is what we use. I don't think anyone confuses the two at all.



The angular "American" tanto is nothing more than a commercial gimmick, because it looks cool, and people fall for the cool factor.
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Ever use one? That secondary point is VERY useful. it acts kinf od like the point on a wharncliffe. You get very powerful, precise cuts on things. Also, I find the angled tip very useful for scraping chores and sharpening pencils. It isn't a gimick. It can work for you if you learn to use it well. Also, given the # of american tantos used in the field (see Striders, Cold Steels, etc. for examples), I wouldn't call them gimmicks. E-mail Mick or Duane at Strider Knives and ask why they have tanto tip models.



Same goes for the one side grind.
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Well, the one side grind is misunderstood. For a utility blade, the grind ought to be on the right side of the knife for a right hander. As most cuts are made away from the body, you want the flat side toward you for good cutting action. Emersons are ground on the other side. Emersons are also intended more for fighting, and less for utility. But, I have heard some people using their Emersons for utility work usefully.

On full sized fighters, the grind ought to be put on the left side for right handers. The most common fighting strokes go inside your body, so you want the flat side down.

Wayne Goddard wrote some interesting info about chisel ground tantos in one of his books. He said that chisel ground tantos with a relatively small secondary edge bevel work best. If you get too many bevels on the ground side, things go wonky. Also, he showed that chisel ground tantos punch an odd, boxy hole in objects while something like a drop point blade punches an oval hole in things. Oval holes in people tend to close in on themselves, aiding healing. Odd, boxy holes in people tend not to close in on themselves.
 
I don't think anyone confuses the two at all.
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Also not true! You would not believe the number of e-mails I get asking if I offer my M.A.U.s with a tanto tip. I just sit back and cuckle, then reply explaining that it is a tanto tip.
 
Thanks R. W.

I guess I mean that I doubt knife nuts mix the two up, but, most knife buyers aren't nuts. Hmm, that kinda sounds funny!
 
Crayola,
Thanks for clarifying my post a while back. And thanks for pointing out the uses of the secondary point. I guess I've just been trying the wrong things...:)
 
Maybe for all these years people have been doing it wrong and it took Americanizing the tanto point to get it to the point of being correct.
This how things evolve, you see something and you start making changes(some bad some good) then over the course of time others do the same pretty soon you have a finished product. Maybe the tanto point just took a few centuries (and a few free thinking Americans) to get right.
Fad. I don't think so, it has been around too long.
The best point ever, don't think so either, except on a mid-sized fighter. Large fighter, give me a bowie.
As far as ueslessness goes daggers have to be at the top, now theres a design that should have gone the way of the dodo bird with the invention of the bowie knife.
Ease of making it, I don't buy that either, getting all the grind lines to be even and symetrical at the same time keeping the cutting edge moving smoothly around the blade I'm sure takes as much skill as any other style blade.
To me it all depends on what you what to do with your blade, kinda like a tool box, don't grab a hammer to fix a lightswitch.
 
Maybe for all these years people have been doing it wrong and it took Americanizing the tanto point to get it to the point of being correct. This how things evolve, you see something and you start making changes(some bad some good) then over the course of time others do the same pretty soon you have a finished product. Maybe the tanto point just took a few centuries (and a few free thinking Americans) to get right.
Click to expand...
More like coming full circle:
From Sword Forum On-line Magazine- "The earliest blades (those prior to about 900 AD - pre-Heian period or Jokoto sword period) that are commonly recognizable as Japanese are of the kiriha-zukuri type: straight flat blades with chisel type edges and kamasu kissaki (chisel shaped points)" More information and pictures here and here.
Regards,Greg
 
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